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Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

#11

Post by swores »

ein0p wrote: post #6
swores wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to guess if that means the reporting is based on propaganda to make Russia look bad vs. US agencies not wanting to admit to the world that Russia has a weapon they can't yet protect against. Both seem equally plausible to me.

For this to be “equally plausible” you’d first have to offer a plausible hypothesis of how such a weapon could operate. Last time this came up nothing even remotely plausible was offered.

I'm no expert on weaponry but isn't there a long history of countries inventing weapons that other countries assumed weren't possible until they saw their use?

Re: Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

#14

Post by ein0p »

swores wrote: post #11
ein0p wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this to be “equally plausible” you’d first have to offer a plausible hypothesis of how such a weapon could operate. Last time this came up nothing even remotely plausible was offered.

I'm no expert on weaponry but isn't there a long history of countries inventing weapons that other countries assumed weren't possible until they saw their use?

[flagged]

Re: Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

#15

Post by maximinus_thrax »

ein0p wrote: post #14
swores wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no expert on weaponry but isn't there a long history of countries inventing weapons that other countries assumed weren't possible until they saw their use?

[flagged]

> the collective West is unable to even hypothesize the nature of over the course of 8 years of investigation

Another hypothesis is that 'the west' is unable or unwilling to publicly disclose what they found, maybe to not further escalate the conflict.

> manufacture consent ahead of $60B “foreign aid” vote

Consent for what? Is the foreign aid vote a referendum?

You seem very passionate about this subject and judging by some of your previous comments on the matter you are holding a heavy bias. I don't believe there is any argument or piece of proof to change your view. Therefore, I don't believe it's worth for anyone to engage with you on this subject. Just wanted to call this out.

Re: Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

#16

Post by ein0p »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #15
ein0p wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> the collective West is unable to even hypothesize the nature of over the course of 8 years of investigation Another hypothesis is that 'the west' is unable or unwilling to publicly disclose what they found, maybe to not further escalate the conflict. > manufacture consent ahead of $60B “foreign aid” vote Consent for what? Is the foreign aid vote a referendum? You seem very passionate about this subject and judging…

Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here? Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago: “ There is no one explanation for these incidents. Instead, there are many different possible causes including environmental as well as social factors and preexisting medical conditions.” Unless you believe that ODNI is full of Putin stooges, there isn’t a lot of room for any “bias” tinfoil here.

Re: Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

#17

Post by maximinus_thrax »

ein0p wrote: post #16
maximinus_thrax wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the collective West is unable to even hypothesize the nature of over the course of 8 years of investigation Another hypothesis is that 'the west' is unable or unwilling to publicly disclose what they found, maybe to not further escalate the conflict. > manufacture consent ahead of $60B “foreign aid” vote Consent for what? Is the foreign aid vote a referendum? You seem very passionate about this subject and judging…

Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here? Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago: “ There is no one explanation for these incidents. Instead, there are many different possible causes including environmental as well as social factors and preexisting medical conditions.” Unless you believe that ODNI is full of Putin stooges, there isn’t a lot of room for any “bias” tinfoil here.

> Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here?

yes

> Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago:

Keywords 'couple of years ago'. Maybe it sounds shocking to some, but things can change over a couple of years, stuff can be researched, new data points can appear or dissapear, presidents get voted out, empires rise and fall within a couple of years.

Re: Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

#18

Post by ein0p »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #17
ein0p wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here? Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago: “ There is no one explanation for these incidents. Instead, there are many different possible causes including environmental as well as social factors and preexisting medical conditions.” Unless you believe that ODNI is full of Putin stooges, there isn’t a lot of room for any “bias” tinfoil here.

> Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here? yes > Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago: Keywords 'couple of years ago'. Maybe it sounds shocking to some, but things can change over a couple of years, stuff can be researched, new data points can appear or dissapear, presidents get voted out, empires rise and fall within a couple of years.

[flagged]

Re: Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

#19

Post by cduzz »

ein0p wrote: post #9
cduzz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next I suppose you'll be proposing that all these random crashes and ransomware attacks are because of some stealth RCE in some low-level library that's used by 80% of the opensource ecosystem? Sheeple! In case my sarcasm is too subtle... The root cause of these issues is not known. There's some obvious value to having an undisclosed attack against "enemy agents" that's difficult to detect but that disables a very di…

[flagged]

So if you're asking who stands to gain...

If you look at the tedious nonsense you have to go through to join the foreign services, and how hard it is to actually get in, and how long it takes to get a station somewhere... I doubt anyone would play that long game just so they could then fake some illness when they could just fall off a ladder at their local supermarket.

Similarly, if you've got some hypersonic death ray that incapacitates people from a distance and you can use it with impunity, why not use it on people who may or may not be in an adversary's intelligence service but are definitely employed by an adversary's government? Even if you get caught, what are they going to do, complain?

I don't particularly think that it is little-green-men with a sonic blaster, but I also don't particularly think it's just complaining complainers making crap up. It's a mystery and I'm interested in finding the answer. I'm certainly not "smart enough" to know something nobody else knows..

See also: Lyme Disease; ulcers

Re: Havana syndrome: Report links mystery illness to Russian intelligence unit

#20

Post by maximinus_thrax »

ein0p wrote: post #18
maximinus_thrax wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you certain I’m the one with the “bias” here? yes > Let me quote ODNI from a couple of year ago: Keywords 'couple of years ago'. Maybe it sounds shocking to some, but things can change over a couple of years, stuff can be researched, new data points can appear or dissapear, presidents get voted out, empires rise and fall within a couple of years.

[flagged]

Is that the ODNI?
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