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Do you really need Kubernetes?

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Re: Do you really need Kubernetes?

#11
post #7
post #3

I'd say 99% of companies using Kubernetes can't really explain why they chose it over Nomad.

The entire reason is popularity/marketshare, and that's a really valid reason to choose tech like this.

Yep. Plenty of people on the market with experience, and your employees know it’s a skill with market value, so they won’t resent your choice and start eyeing the door.

Re: Do you really need Kubernetes?

#13
post #2

There is a corollary to this: Do you really need cloud infrastructure? Cattle not pets right? Well, no. Have you seen amazons AWS margins? Its 30%. After amazon buys hardware, pays people to run it, it still makes 30%. Not having hardware is someone else's profit. That isnt cattle, its contract poultry farming. Learn capacity planing. Learn to write cachable, scalable apps. Track your hardware spend per customer. Lea…

Learn to write cachable, scalable apps.

I'm expected to write a service like s3?

Re: Do you really need Kubernetes?

#14
I found that just using CloudRun and similar technologies is simpler and easier to manage than kubernetes. You need auto scaling, fast startup, limit number of concurrent connections to each instance, and scale to zero functionality.

Re: Do you really need Kubernetes?

#15
No. We chose ECS instead :-)

That said, we are planning on doing a cloud exit in the future. I don't feel we need Kubernetes, but we do need to orchestrate containers. In our case, it's less scale, and more isolation.

Re: Do you really need Kubernetes?

#16
Your first full-time sysadmin is an expensive hire. So is your first DBA. And even if your database backups are working now, there's a good chance they'll silently break in the next several years.

The simplest thing you could do is to build a single-container application, and deploy it a Heroku-like system with a fully managed database. If this actually works for your use case, then definitely avoid Kubernetes.

But eventually you'll reach a point where you need to run a dozen different things, spread out across a bunch of servers. You'll need cron jobs and Grafana and maybe some centralized way to manage secrets. You'll need a bunch of other things. At this point, a managed Kuberentes cluster is no worse than any other option. It's lighter weight than 50 pages of Terraform. You won't need to worry about how to get customized init scripts into an autoscaling group.

The price is that you'll need to read an O'Reily book, you'll need to write a moderate amount of YAML, and you'll need to pay attention to the signs reading Here There Be Dragons.

Kuberentes isn't the only way to tackle problems at this scale. But I've used Terraform and ECS and Chef and even a custom RPM package repo. And none of these approaches were signficantly simpler than Kubernetes once you deployed a full, working system for a medium-sized organization.

Re: Do you really need Kubernetes?

#18
For small teams I also think Kubernetes often greatly complicates the per-service operational overhead by making it much more difficult for most engineers to manage their own deployments. You will inevitably reach a point that engineers need to collaborate with infra folks, but in my experience that point gets moved up a lot by using Kubernetes.

Re: Do you really need Kubernetes?

#19
post #2

There is a corollary to this: Do you really need cloud infrastructure? Cattle not pets right? Well, no. Have you seen amazons AWS margins? Its 30%. After amazon buys hardware, pays people to run it, it still makes 30%. Not having hardware is someone else's profit. That isnt cattle, its contract poultry farming. Learn capacity planing. Learn to write cachable, scalable apps. Track your hardware spend per customer. Lea…

I fully agree with your last paragraph, but not sure what it has to do with cloud infrastructure specifically. AWS also leverages huge economies of scale into profit, it's not like you're going to realize equivalent margins by running your own little server in a colo somewhere. You certainly won't realize equivalent availability, scalability, security, support ecosystem, etc with it either. Cloud infra can make a lot of sense even with "pets" - you just gotta make sure to understand requirements, limitations, and use the right tools for the problem. For me personally, I'll reach for cloud infra these days as a reasonable default (similar to reaching for Postgres as a reasonable database default), especially if it's managed and affordable.

Re: Do you really need Kubernetes?

#20
post #8
post #2

There is a corollary to this: Do you really need cloud infrastructure? Cattle not pets right? Well, no. Have you seen amazons AWS margins? Its 30%. After amazon buys hardware, pays people to run it, it still makes 30%. Not having hardware is someone else's profit. That isnt cattle, its contract poultry farming. Learn capacity planing. Learn to write cachable, scalable apps. Track your hardware spend per customer. Lea…

> Not having hardware is someone else's profit. But it's also someone else's economies of scale. The chances of me getting datacenter space, hardware, bandwidth, and expert 24/7 staffing at the same volume discounts they do is... slim. Particularly for the small amounts I'd need.

In most cases where your total needs are less than a dedicated server, you're probably correct. Once you hit that level, issues like network traffic, EBS volumes, etc, really start to creep that cloud bill up fast.
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