Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Boeing's 737 MAX Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers (2019)

industryweek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 87 posts

Re: Boeing's 737 MAX Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers (2019)

#11

Post by pfannkuchen »

Smeevy wrote: post #6
silent_cal wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience there is a correlation there. Low-cost outsourced code is generally pretty bad.

Not that you intimated this, but I don't know that it's necessarily a problem with the people writing the code. What I've seen is that organizations that try to save money by offshoring are not providing adequate domain knowledge or usable requirements to the developers. Throw in a massive timezone difference and every misunderstanding winds up living in your system.

Culture issues do exist. IME different cultures have very different approaches to communicating e.g. “I don’t know” or “I made a mistake”. Not everyone in a particular culture acts the same, but it definitely affects the average outcome.

Re: Boeing's 737 MAX Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers (2019)

#12

Post by hgfghj »

jkic47 wrote: post #2

The article seems to conflate engineering salaries in a low cost of living country with the quality of the software. As I understand it, the software performed exactly as designed, forcing the nose of the plane downwards to counter the upwards torque produced by the engines being offset relative to the centre of gravity of the plane. Mentour Pilot had a great episode on the two tragic accidents. It appears that Boein…

My experience is that contract work like this ends up being done by ordertakers; the contractors execute the design, no matter how stupid.

Whereas, the best performing companies hire engineers who are empowered to understand the goals, understand the problem, and push back when appropriate.

The results are much better, because the people working on each system, understand it deeply and care.

A low-cost contractor isn’t allowed to care. They aren’t even allowed to talk to somebody who matters.

This is a management disgrace.

Re: Boeing's 737 MAX Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers (2019)

#14

Post by genman »

hgfghj wrote: post #12
jkic47 wrote: post #2

The article seems to conflate engineering salaries in a low cost of living country with the quality of the software. As I understand it, the software performed exactly as designed, forcing the nose of the plane downwards to counter the upwards torque produced by the engines being offset relative to the centre of gravity of the plane. Mentour Pilot had a great episode on the two tragic accidents. It appears that Boein…

My experience is that contract work like this ends up being done by ordertakers; the contractors execute the design, no matter how stupid. Whereas, the best performing companies hire engineers who are empowered to understand the goals, understand the problem, and push back when appropriate. The results are much better, because the people working on each system, understand it deeply and care. A low-cost contractor isn…

I think that this a fair take, especially about the possible power structure.

Re: Boeing's 737 MAX Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers (2019)

#15

Post by gregors »

jkic47 wrote: post #2

The article seems to conflate engineering salaries in a low cost of living country with the quality of the software. As I understand it, the software performed exactly as designed, forcing the nose of the plane downwards to counter the upwards torque produced by the engines being offset relative to the centre of gravity of the plane. Mentour Pilot had a great episode on the two tragic accidents. It appears that Boein…

And yet we seem to conflate salaries with competent leadership positions.

Re: Boeing's 737 MAX Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers (2019)

#17

Post by aslihana »

> recalled one manager saying at an all-hands meeting that Boeing didn’t need senior engineers because its products were mature.

Shame. Industrial companies, if you decide as pincher, you will be doomed in your little world... as it always has been :)

Re: Boeing's 737 MAX Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers (2019)

#19

Post by renewiltord »

jkic47 wrote: post #2

The article seems to conflate engineering salaries in a low cost of living country with the quality of the software. As I understand it, the software performed exactly as designed, forcing the nose of the plane downwards to counter the upwards torque produced by the engines being offset relative to the centre of gravity of the plane. Mentour Pilot had a great episode on the two tragic accidents. It appears that Boein…

MCAS wasn't outsourced to India LOL. People here are gullible idiots hahaha.

Re: Boeing's 737 MAX Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers (2019)

#20

Post by NullPrefix »

uuddlrlrbaba wrote: post #4
jkic47 wrote: post #2

The article seems to conflate engineering salaries in a low cost of living country with the quality of the software. As I understand it, the software performed exactly as designed, forcing the nose of the plane downwards to counter the upwards torque produced by the engines being offset relative to the centre of gravity of the plane. Mentour Pilot had a great episode on the two tragic accidents. It appears that Boein…

Weird take. The theme throughout has been cost cutting and poor oversight for the sole benefit of shareholder profits. A proper in house team would probably say, hey what happens when the sole sensor feeding our software is obstructed by a birthday balloon? Maybe we need an exponentially backoff instead of every 30 seconds. Maybe nose down actions shouldn't be automatically executed at low altitude. What we see playi…

birthday balloon? In front of a landing plane at 170mph?
Post reply on HN