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Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

nytimes.com

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Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#11

Post by max_ »

The problem with such issues of data misuse is that people only provide 2 solutions.

a) Go off grid. Don't use The tech that these cars make.

The problem with this is that it is impractical for people that use see alot of value in using this tech.

b) Pass more regulation.

I am a Hayekian and I believe that regulation will not help with people that know the ins & outs of the regulation, also it's doesn't stop them. It just means corporations are willing to misbehave as long as they can play the legal gymnastics and pay rudimentary fines.

Now, The third option which I see would be the best but isn't talked much about is the promotion, and installation of homomorphic computing or homomorphic encryption.

I am not a cryptographer so I really don't fully understand it's limitations. But adopting this would simply make all these data abuse issues vanish.

Cryptographers, why hasn't homomophic Computing or homomophic encryption been massively adopted?

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#12

Post by bell-cot »

themaninthedark wrote: post #3

All the companies were have bee hoovering up our data, where did you think this was going to end? Add in the fact that if you are not getting "growth" on the stock market, then you must be doing something wrong.

The Stasi didn't add anything to the GDP of the GDR, either. That wasn't the point then, and it isn't now.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#13

Post by batch12 »

When I got my last car, it had a sticker instructing me to press the SOS button to opt out of data collection. The gentleman that answered acted confused when I made the request, taking the stance that he wasn't aware of data collection from the car and maybe I should contact the manufacturer. It was only after I read him the sticker text verbatim that he went into a scripted response and confirmed the opt out. Shady.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#14

Post by Eisenstein »

max_ wrote: post #11

The problem with such issues of data misuse is that people only provide 2 solutions. a) Go off grid. Don't use The tech that these cars make. The problem with this is that it is impractical for people that use see alot of value in using this tech. b) Pass more regulation. I am a Hayekian and I believe that regulation will not help with people that know the ins & outs of the regulation, also it's doesn't stop them. It…

Do companies ignore regulations? Sure, some do. But saying 'they will just pay the fines' ignores the fact that we could make the fines existential, or punish board members by kicking them out of the industry. The answer to 'the regulation we haven't even tried won't work if we do it improperly' is 'let's do it, and do it properly'. I have no idea what homomorphic encryption is, but rarely do 'let's add more tech to magic bullet a human problem of incentives' solutions work.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#15

Post by xnx »

As a safe driver, I like the idea of dangerous drivers paying more. There's no good reason the participants should not be aware they are under surveillance though.

Sidenote: I wonder if they've considered close follow distance or frequent lane changes as a risk factor.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#16

Post by idiotsecant »

max_ wrote: post #11

The problem with such issues of data misuse is that people only provide 2 solutions. a) Go off grid. Don't use The tech that these cars make. The problem with this is that it is impractical for people that use see alot of value in using this tech. b) Pass more regulation. I am a Hayekian and I believe that regulation will not help with people that know the ins & outs of the regulation, also it's doesn't stop them. It…

Which specific regulation do you think has a history of not being impactful? I find that the devil is in the detail in this argument because most regulation us massively impactful and helpful and I find that the talking point that we need to get rid of it is generally loudest from those who would profit the most from not following those rules anymore.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#17

Post by floating-io »

Eisenstein wrote: post #14
max_ wrote: post #11

The problem with such issues of data misuse is that people only provide 2 solutions. a) Go off grid. Don't use The tech that these cars make. The problem with this is that it is impractical for people that use see alot of value in using this tech. b) Pass more regulation. I am a Hayekian and I believe that regulation will not help with people that know the ins & outs of the regulation, also it's doesn't stop them. It…

Do companies ignore regulations? Sure, some do. But saying 'they will just pay the fines' ignores the fact that we could make the fines existential, or punish board members by kicking them out of the industry. The answer to 'the regulation we haven't even tried won't work if we do it improperly' is 'let's do it, and do it properly'. I have no idea what homomorphic encryption is, but rarely do 'let's add more tech to…

Strangely enough, I know the answer to that, if memory is serving.

Homomorphic encryption is where you can compute on the encrypted data without ever decrypting it.

Logically, it sounds like a pipe dream to me, but apparently it's a thing.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#18

Post by rightbyte »

barrkel wrote: post #9

> An employee familiar with G.M.’s Smart Driver said the company’s annual revenue from the program is in the low millions of dollars. It doesn't seem in the car company's interests to take on the reputational risk for this kind of financial reward.

Short term profit long term losses things are done a lot.

Also, companies seem to work against their own interests quite often. The spyware is probably on some separate budget with separate bonuses attached. So "locally" in the department it might make financial sense to spy on the users.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#19

Post by idiotsecant »

xnx wrote: post #15

As a safe driver, I like the idea of dangerous drivers paying more. There's no good reason the participants should not be aware they are under surveillance though. Sidenote: I wonder if they've considered close follow distance or frequent lane changes as a risk factor.

Its telling how you phrase this.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#20

Post by max_ »

Eisenstein wrote: post #14
max_ wrote: post #11

The problem with such issues of data misuse is that people only provide 2 solutions. a) Go off grid. Don't use The tech that these cars make. The problem with this is that it is impractical for people that use see alot of value in using this tech. b) Pass more regulation. I am a Hayekian and I believe that regulation will not help with people that know the ins & outs of the regulation, also it's doesn't stop them. It…

Do companies ignore regulations? Sure, some do. But saying 'they will just pay the fines' ignores the fact that we could make the fines existential, or punish board members by kicking them out of the industry. The answer to 'the regulation we haven't even tried won't work if we do it improperly' is 'let's do it, and do it properly'. I have no idea what homomorphic encryption is, but rarely do 'let's add more tech to…

Homomophic encryption simply means that the data is encrypted in a way that the person working with it cannot use it arbitrarily.

Here is an example, I would for instance use Google Maps for Navigation but Google or any other third party would have no idea where I am going.

I used it in the first company I worked for and it works beautifully.

A) and B) work but they are not as effective as homomophic encryption.

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