Live data from Hacker News

America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

economist.com

11–20 of 45 posts

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#11
post #3

I have a super liberal (politically, not in the classical sense) sister as a professor at a small school (non Ivy League). She talks all the time about the hyper bloated administration that literally does nothing except make things less efficient and collect a paycheck. It would seem that whether you're on the political left OR right (or somewhere in the middle), that we can all agree that there is a ton of bloat in…

Has any university manage to buck this trend?

Research institutes like Rockefeller, Allen Institute, Scripps.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#12
Restricting student loans for non stem degrees, student visas, and eliminating the non-profit status of higher ed institutions would go a long to reigning in the fat and excessiveness of tuition.

Look at the salaries of college admins and board of trustees. Harvard pays their president over $1million one year. It's gone beyond ridiculous.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#13
People talk a lot about the bloat at universities, but I think that they don’t often think about that bloat as being the rational response to a system that is increasingly pushing them to (a) provide collegiate credentialling to basically the entire US workforce and (b) operate the infrastructure of a small village. Yes administrative bloat is real, yes universities are opaque morasses of money and bureaucracy. They are also charged with the care of tens of thousands of young people; keeping them fed, providing medical services, transit, housing, therapy, IT support, and obviously education in advanced topics across the entire breadth of human knowledge. Does this require endless “Vice Provost of X” type bullshit jobs? No, but consider the amount of cruft at a private corporation of similar size and scope. In some ways this is simply what happens when organizations grow this big, IMO

edit: I didn't even mention that they also must maintain enormous research operations, some of them performing research that is literally the bleeding edge of human knowledge. Like imagine trying to helm a corporation that is simultaneously invested in multi-billion dollar government grants for deep-tech R&D, alongside a portfolio of ~15 hotels, a minor-league football team, an urgent care, a landscaping company, and something like 10-20 high schools of students. Not to mention libraries, museums, gyms, food, etc. And god help you if your campus is more than 50 years old, because the cost of maintaining all those buildings are going to be insane. If you were able to do this all without bloat or graft honestly I think you'd a generational genius in management.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#14

People talk a lot about the bloat at universities, but I think that they don’t often think about that bloat as being the rational response to a system that is increasingly pushing them to (a) provide collegiate credentialling to basically the entire US workforce and (b) operate the infrastructure of a small village. Yes administrative bloat is real, yes universities are opaque morasses of money and bureaucracy. They…

> They are also charged with the care of tens of thousands of young people; keeping them fed, providing medical services, transit, housing, therapy, IT support, and obviously education in advanced topics across the entire breadth of human knowledge.

No, they are not. They just have access to unlimited taxpayer money in the form of unlimited student loans. Admin gets a cut of this, so obviously the more student loan money flowing through the school, the bigger the cut.

Even 20 years ago, my college required people living in the dorms to buy a certain minimum number of meals at $20 per shitty defrosted Aramark/Sodexo meal or more. And this was in NYC, I could have walked 2min in any direction out and gotten a much more nutritious and better tasting meal for $5 to $10 back in those days.

The root cause of the problem always has and will be the tap of unlimited taxpayer money. But with the benefit of tying it to a young person’s credit, so they keep their heads down and be good little worker bees.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#15

People talk a lot about the bloat at universities, but I think that they don’t often think about that bloat as being the rational response to a system that is increasingly pushing them to (a) provide collegiate credentialling to basically the entire US workforce and (b) operate the infrastructure of a small village. Yes administrative bloat is real, yes universities are opaque morasses of money and bureaucracy. They…

> They are also charged with the care of tens of thousands of young people; keeping them fed, providing medical services, transit, housing, therapy, IT support, and obviously education in advanced topics across the entire breadth of human knowledge. No, they are not. They just have access to unlimited taxpayer money in the form of unlimited student loans. Admin gets a cut of this, so obviously the more student loan m…

I mean I don’t disagree that the way we finance higher ed has led to this outcome, but also there absolutely is the demand from both state governments as well as state citizens to provide this level of service. I agree that we should not be coercing 18 year olds into 30-year loans for hundreds of thousands of dollars, but we also have decided that everyone should go to college and that college should “look like” what everyone remembers private college being like in the 70s. The result of those decisions is the system we have now. Taking hatchets to public university budgets is downstream of the problem so long as there's a crush of people who demanding that their children can have "a college experience"; we need to refresh both the purpose and form factor of higher ed from the beginning

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#16

Restricting student loans for non stem degrees, student visas, and eliminating the non-profit status of higher ed institutions would go a long to reigning in the fat and excessiveness of tuition. Look at the salaries of college admins and board of trustees. Harvard pays their president over $1million one year. It's gone beyond ridiculous.

International students often end up subsidizing US students. Restricting student visas might end up actually increasing tuition.

Also, I disagree that $1m/year for the president of Harvard is ridiculous. That's less than the CEOs of many regional hospital systems are paid, and I think the impact of Harvard is much greater.

With you on restricting student loans for non-STEM programs, though.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#19

Restricting student loans for non stem degrees, student visas, and eliminating the non-profit status of higher ed institutions would go a long to reigning in the fat and excessiveness of tuition. Look at the salaries of college admins and board of trustees. Harvard pays their president over $1million one year. It's gone beyond ridiculous.

International students often end up subsidizing US students. Restricting student visas might end up actually increasing tuition. Also, I disagree that $1m/year for the president of Harvard is ridiculous. That's less than the CEOs of many regional hospital systems are paid, and I think the impact of Harvard is much greater. With you on restricting student loans for non-STEM programs, though.

What does not make sense is we let foreigners invest $500k to buy a green card and ability to live in the US.

But a young, potentially productive and educated student who would ostensibly be looking to start a family and make more productive and more patriotic Americans, who has sunk a couple hundred thousand dollars into our higher education institutions still has to go through the gauntlet to earn the right to live in the US.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#20
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has any university manage to buck this trend?

Where would the market fit be for a university to buck the trend? Those who want to fund research will hire the researchers themselves in order to retain ownership and control. Those who want to learn for the sake of learning turn to the internet. There is no money to be made here. The money is in selling sports and status. The students want to be milked as a care-free willingness to be milked is what establishes the…

Cal Tech comes to mind. Probably the only org left in the US doing this.
Post reply on HN