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The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

lessfoolish.substack.com

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Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#11

Post by idopmstuff »

xyzelement wrote: post #5
zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

//It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We don’t. A hundred years the average man was putting in 7 to 7 shifts on the factory or the farm. Physically exhausting, dangerous and painful labor that required your physical presence and likely left you too exhausted for anything else. Today you and I are click clacking our keyboards in a safe and air conditioned environmen…

On top of that, most of those farmers were earning subsistence wages and could be ruined by one bad harvest.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#12

Post by kortilla »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

If you want the same quality of life of 100 years ago you don’t need to work at all.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#13

Post by satvikpendem »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

There is more work to go around. Back in the day, the only work that was required was sustaining one's caloric intake via farming (not to even mention the sibling's point that that work was much more strenuous that today's). As civilization advances, more work is uncovered. It is akin to a form of Parkinson's Law (work expands to fill the time allotted), only in this case, the time allotted is the entire future history of humanity.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#14

Post by mxkopy »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

The things that make the maintenance of modern infrastructure easier themselves need maintenance.

There’s also a hedonic treadmill effect, where we start to expect the amenities that modern infrastructure affords and use them as a base for greater aspirations (ground travel is solved for the average person, now let’s solve air -> space -> etc)

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#15

Post by tw04 »

xyzelement wrote: post #5
zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

//It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We don’t. A hundred years the average man was putting in 7 to 7 shifts on the factory or the farm. Physically exhausting, dangerous and painful labor that required your physical presence and likely left you too exhausted for anything else. Today you and I are click clacking our keyboards in a safe and air conditioned environmen…

Much like the anti-vax movement, the average American seems in complete denial of how things really were a hundred years ago. Prior to unions, work looked completely different - EVERYONE has benefitted from the change unions brought about.

It's easy to tell yourself that sort of thing would never happen in a country like this when you weren't a direct witness to people (including children) literally being worked to death in a factory.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#16

Post by purplerabbit »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

I believe the purpose of life is to create possibility. If that’s true, there will never be an incentive to work less so long as there is more possibility to be created (assuming that people are living purposefully, and it seems to me that those that don’t are evolutionarily selected against)

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#17

Post by 1auralynn »

tw04 wrote: post #15
xyzelement wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

//It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We don’t. A hundred years the average man was putting in 7 to 7 shifts on the factory or the farm. Physically exhausting, dangerous and painful labor that required your physical presence and likely left you too exhausted for anything else. Today you and I are click clacking our keyboards in a safe and air conditioned environmen…

Much like the anti-vax movement, the average American seems in complete denial of how things really were a hundred years ago. Prior to unions, work looked completely different - EVERYONE has benefitted from the change unions brought about. It's easy to tell yourself that sort of thing would never happen in a country like this when you weren't a direct witness to people (including children) literally being worked to d…

Yeah, I'm glad The Jungle was required reading in my high school history class.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#18

Post by staplers »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #6
bawolff wrote: post #2

The article defines the opposite of being a workaholic ("work matyr") as > “Time Indifference – We put off what must be done and do not use our time to support our own vision and further our own goals.” Personally i can't really identify with that view. I find work hardest to focus on when it is opposed to my own vision/goals (other then the goal to pay my rent). I suppose its still the same thing as a second order e…

> spending time procrastinating is usually more time then just straight up doing it, which is less time on your own goals When it comes to employment, I've never found it actually benefits me all that much to work hard and deliver results early. And it doesn't free me up that extra time to pursue my own goals either. I don't think I'm alone in this.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#19

Post by eastbound »

tw04 wrote: post #15
xyzelement wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

//It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We don’t. A hundred years the average man was putting in 7 to 7 shifts on the factory or the farm. Physically exhausting, dangerous and painful labor that required your physical presence and likely left you too exhausted for anything else. Today you and I are click clacking our keyboards in a safe and air conditioned environmen…

Much like the anti-vax movement, the average American seems in complete denial of how things really were a hundred years ago. Prior to unions, work looked completely different - EVERYONE has benefitted from the change unions brought about. It's easy to tell yourself that sort of thing would never happen in a country like this when you weren't a direct witness to people (including children) literally being worked to d…

> EVERYONE has benefitted from the change unions brought about

The unions brought us the congés payés in France in 1936. Think about the guilt. While the Germans where manufacturing bombs day and night in Germany, we were on the frigging beach.

Thank you, unions, we got invaded because of your irresponsibility. Also half of France had congés payés in 1935. Unions only brought the to sectors who couldn’t afford it.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#20

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

Regardless of the facts, actually it does fall out from certain first principles: https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/Meditations-On-Moloch

If someone else worked harder, they'd out-compete you, maybe conquer you. So we set a threshold and say, you can work 40-80-ish hours without going totally insane and dying. But there's no point working less than that, because someone else is ready to push the envelope. Even if the whole US agreed to just take it easy, I fear the other two superpowers (China and..... well Russia seems weak, maybe India?) would outdo us in GDP and it wouldn't be a great position politically to be in, since the US is my favorite superpower by a country mile.

It's unfortunate math.

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