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Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

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Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#12
post #9

In a nutshell for those without a X account: the problem here isn't that Google's AI gave "woke" results. The big problem here is that even one of the biggest AI specialists in the world, Google, wasn't able to fully predict or control the output of its AI. If we ever create a truly powerful, superintelligent AI under the assumption that we'll be able to control it, this incident shows that even a minor mistake from…

This seems like a reaching explanation to try to wave away an ideological embarrassment as not being a consequence of the ideology.

"No one could have predicted the outcome of the instruction set we put in - which was followed precisely and in predictable fashion."

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#13
My personal opinion is that what he says is non-sense divagation.

The problem of woke instructions like this is that it goes against the physical reality of the dataset. And it is the physical reality that does that we have what we have even if we don't like it.

Such a case better show us the issue with the woke mindset that tries to bend the reality.

You might want to ask the AI to only generate positive opinion, messages. But it would probably not be possible to be a real actor of the current world without a component of anger, hate, violence ...

For example, in general I would like to have friendly messages generated, but if you were wronged by a company, you might have to generate threats messages and then generate litigation content even if it is negative.

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#14
Let’s agree for the sake of argument that you can have whatever guardrails you want around your AI. It stands to reason that you want to test those guardrails pretty thoroughly and see if there are any unintended consequences like this. It turns out that Twitter is full of irreverent shitposters and trolls who really want to make this particular guardrail self-defeating, and as a result they managed to do it. This raises a question: why can’t Google, one of the richest corporations on earth, have testers who are similarly capable? OK, you’re never going to match the sheer creativity of all of Twitter, but OTOH Gemini seemed to ship in a broken enough state that you’d think they wouldn’t have to do too much testing to uncover this problem before release.

The problem is, when it comes to “sensitive” or potentially “offensive” issues, it’s very easy to effectively stifle the sort of irreverent lateral thinking required to do thorough testing. If the intended guardrails are excessively sensitive to begin with, which seems likely based on some of the reports I’ve seen on Twitter (e.g. categorically refusing to generate images of white people even when explicitly asked to, or categorically refusing to generate Norman Rockwell style depictions of classic Americana), that implies a similarly sensitive corporate culture. I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that testers were afraid to even try and test for these failure modes because they reasonably believed they might be fired for it. But what’s more insidious is a widespread avoidance of even having thoughts that seem out of bounds.

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#15
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1760859214875132161.html

His main point: "This event is not significant for culture war reasons. ... This event is significant because it is major demonstration of someone giving a LLM a set of instructions and the results being totally not at all what they predicted."

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#16

Let’s agree for the sake of argument that you can have whatever guardrails you want around your AI. It stands to reason that you want to test those guardrails pretty thoroughly and see if there are any unintended consequences like this. It turns out that Twitter is full of irreverent shitposters and trolls who really want to make this particular guardrail self-defeating, and as a result they managed to do it. This ra…

The results were by design.

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#17
post #9

In a nutshell for those without a X account: the problem here isn't that Google's AI gave "woke" results. The big problem here is that even one of the biggest AI specialists in the world, Google, wasn't able to fully predict or control the output of its AI. If we ever create a truly powerful, superintelligent AI under the assumption that we'll be able to control it, this incident shows that even a minor mistake from…

The woke results were by design. This was not a mistake or unpredictable.

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#18

Let’s agree for the sake of argument that you can have whatever guardrails you want around your AI. It stands to reason that you want to test those guardrails pretty thoroughly and see if there are any unintended consequences like this. It turns out that Twitter is full of irreverent shitposters and trolls who really want to make this particular guardrail self-defeating, and as a result they managed to do it. This ra…

The results were by design.

Many of them were, yes. And nobody was going to dare push back on that part of it.

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#19
post #9

In a nutshell for those without a X account: the problem here isn't that Google's AI gave "woke" results. The big problem here is that even one of the biggest AI specialists in the world, Google, wasn't able to fully predict or control the output of its AI. If we ever create a truly powerful, superintelligent AI under the assumption that we'll be able to control it, this incident shows that even a minor mistake from…

[dead]

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#20
post #9

In a nutshell for those without a X account: the problem here isn't that Google's AI gave "woke" results. The big problem here is that even one of the biggest AI specialists in the world, Google, wasn't able to fully predict or control the output of its AI. If we ever create a truly powerful, superintelligent AI under the assumption that we'll be able to control it, this incident shows that even a minor mistake from…

The woke results were by design. This was not a mistake or unpredictable.

Are you contending that the black Wehrmacht soldiers, or black British kings eating watermelon, were anticipated or desired by Google staff?

Even if you model them as the most extreme conceivable woke boogeymen, surely they wouldn't want a scenario where the diversity programming produced a result that they would consider more insulting to minorities than the one that would have been produced without it.

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