Live data from Hacker News

LilyPond: Music notation for everyone

lilypond.org

11–20 of 89 posts

Re: LilyPond: Music notation for everyone

#11
The problem with lilypond is that it's a write-only language. Due to so many macros, it can't be parsed, only executed.

So its main value to me is as an intermediate output format. Because its output is amazing.

(to me, an ideal music representation should be 2-dimensional, consisting of multiple parallel data and markup channels, then each rendering should be able to select a subset)

Re: LilyPond: Music notation for everyone

#12
Interesting that Music notation even seems to be a “challenge” to do with a computer, speaking as a complete layman. It seems like there is only a few note symbols to draw, at fixed positions. Can someone explain what makes good engraving good?

Re: LilyPond: Music notation for everyone

#13

Interesting that Music notation even seems to be a “challenge” to do with a computer, speaking as a complete layman. It seems like there is only a few note symbols to draw, at fixed positions. Can someone explain what makes good engraving good?

Western notation is a complex written language developed over centuries. It's easy to render the symbols in isolation, but not the meaning they convey to the musician who's expected to perform it. Even something like whether to render a flat or a sharp depends on context and intended use.

Re: LilyPond: Music notation for everyone

#14

Interesting that Music notation even seems to be a “challenge” to do with a computer, speaking as a complete layman. It seems like there is only a few note symbols to draw, at fixed positions. Can someone explain what makes good engraving good?

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/essay.pdf is a really good explanation - simplistic "make music notes like characters in a font" gets you the information, but it is NOT at all beautiful and actively fights against you, the same way badly typeset and kerned text is hard to read.

Re: LilyPond: Music notation for everyone

#15

Interesting that Music notation even seems to be a “challenge” to do with a computer, speaking as a complete layman. It seems like there is only a few note symbols to draw, at fixed positions. Can someone explain what makes good engraving good?

The answer to that question has consumed books and university courses, but the LP essay linked in the sibling comment is a fine start.

Re: LilyPond: Music notation for everyone

#16
As a matter of fact, I started learning LilyPond last weekend using Frescobaldi, because of its awesome midi input, and because I figured I might get more efficient with code than with a WYSIWYG editor (I use MuseScore).

Frescobaldi is a very nice way of getting started. It generates code that you see, you can use buttons for features you don't know yet and then you can type code directly when you know it. Frescobaldi then remains useful for at least these reasons:

- midi input and output

- the rendered view and mapping between this view and the code when you click on stuff, quite like those latex IDEs

- new feature discovery. I discovered the concept of the UI that shows you what code is generated and where recently with LuCI for OpenWrt, which shows what config file is going to be updated and how; I love it and Frescobaldi has the same quality. I find it lets you get started and then master a new complex system efficiently and painlessly.

Of course I suspect I will reach for my usual text editor at some point... and maybe I need a midi input plugin for it (Kate, if anybody happens to know something about this)

Of course storing repeated notes in variable is incredibly useful, and managing different voices on the same clef is surprisingly easier than with MuseScore.

One thing I dislike is how stuff applying to several notes need to be "opened" after the first note. I needed to do such a thing to a group of notes that was also used elsewhere and storing this group of notes in a variable was only natural but then it's difficult to open something after the first note. But this is easily overcome by using an empty chord ( ) to start the grouping thing. Feels hacky but seems to work, I hope it doesn't have unintended consequences. I'm sure there's a very sensible reason for this that I will discover later and will make me think that it was an obvious design choice after all.

I'm not sure it's for everyone though. MuseScore is better at this, LilyPond has started being for me at a time WYSIWYG started being frustrating and when I started wishing the UI didn't get in the way of my note input (before this, I absolutely didn't want to write code to make a music sheet - just let me click already). But I'm used to code and to please compilers. Code scares a lot of people. I wish it didn't.

Re: LilyPond: Music notation for everyone

#18

Interesting that Music notation even seems to be a “challenge” to do with a computer, speaking as a complete layman. It seems like there is only a few note symbols to draw, at fixed positions. Can someone explain what makes good engraving good?

Positions, orientation and spaced aren't fixed and can vary a lot. To get a bit of the detail involved on it you can check the videos for Musescore 3.6 engraving updates [0] or the "Overhaul" and "Notation" sections for the 4.0 update [1].

Those aren't long, around 5 minutes each.

  0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLR40BGNy68
  1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc08RhOQDR4

Re: LilyPond: Music notation for everyone

#20
post #13

Interesting that Music notation even seems to be a “challenge” to do with a computer, speaking as a complete layman. It seems like there is only a few note symbols to draw, at fixed positions. Can someone explain what makes good engraving good?

Western notation is a complex written language developed over centuries. It's easy to render the symbols in isolation, but not the meaning they convey to the musician who's expected to perform it. Even something like whether to render a flat or a sharp depends on context and intended use.

^ This is "the problem". A lot of music students try to "solve" it after getting frustrated with the staff, but eventually decide that couple hundred years of bad notation still has most of the bugs worked out.

You're really looking for patterns on the staff rather than the exact pedantic notes that are present in the notation.

Me? Still learn best by ear. Unfortunately this is also the slowest method....

Post reply on HN