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Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

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Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#11

Post by ajross »

skynetv2 wrote: post #2

I am surprised it takes this long to make someone accountable. But it is too little too late, though a step in the right direction. It is clear that this program was flawed right from the get go.

He's only been on the job for two years, coming in to manage the project after the MCAS disaster. In some sense he's the easy person to eject.

I don't think the individuals really matter that much here. The point to firing executives in charge of big failures is to incentivize the ones remaining to get their ships under control before another disaster. Clark clearly failed on that front, but again the 737 MAX program isn't the end of Boeing's problems.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#13

Post by ajross »

bavent wrote: post #8
tr_user wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

accountable as a scapegoat

Yeah firing someone who was on the engineering side is not a good look when the problems are on the MBA side.

No, that's a meme. Clearly the problem with the door plug was a production process problem. They engineered a bad process[1] and it led to a failure. Was that due to pressure or interference from someone on the "MBA side"? Well, maybe? But that needs evidence before you can make a statement like you did, and so far we don't have it.

[1] Seems like consensus at this point is that the repair/rework review process had a hole contractors/suppliers could use to skip reviews by changing a category. Again, that might be done for "MBA" reasons but if the process allowed it it's still a bug in the process.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#14

Post by bobthepanda »

brianwawok wrote: post #9
mikece wrote: post #3

A friend of mine who used to work for Boeing said the downward trend started when they acquired McDonnell Douglas and the MD bean counters took over a lot of top positions at Boeing, displacing engineers. After that cost-cutting became more of an obsession than building awesome aircraft. Makes me wonder how Boeing can avoid descending into bankruptcy at this point with multiple major projects having significant issue…

There is so little competition, and it would be so expensive to spin something up… I could see it sputtering along for many years. Who can disrupt this? Need space X level money and research, and not sure the profit potential is as high.

It is really hard. China, Russia and Japan have tried state sponsored schemes without success. Bombardier of Canada had to throw in the towel, and Embraer of Brazil almost did.

Part of the problem is also that airlines have been very good at squeezing the duopoly while demanding ever more. The competition, if it manages to get a plane in the air, usually isn’t as fuel efficient and so the airlines have mostly not been interested.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#15

Post by lp4vn »

mikece wrote: post #3

A friend of mine who used to work for Boeing said the downward trend started when they acquired McDonnell Douglas and the MD bean counters took over a lot of top positions at Boeing, displacing engineers. After that cost-cutting became more of an obsession than building awesome aircraft. Makes me wonder how Boeing can avoid descending into bankruptcy at this point with multiple major projects having significant issue…

>Makes me wonder how Boeing can avoid descending into bankruptcy at this point with multiple major projects having significant issues, recalls, and safety issues.

Boeing is a duopoly with Airbus and for putting in your hands in a brand new Airbus you will have to join the queue and wait five years. So they benefit from the lack of competition, if the merger with McDonnel had never happened, probably this situation would be different. But today's capitalism is all about consolidating and eliminating competition.

Embraer might try to venture in the wide body segment, but they don't seem willing to do that move.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#17

Post by colpabar »

mikece wrote: post #3

A friend of mine who used to work for Boeing said the downward trend started when they acquired McDonnell Douglas and the MD bean counters took over a lot of top positions at Boeing, displacing engineers. After that cost-cutting became more of an obsession than building awesome aircraft. Makes me wonder how Boeing can avoid descending into bankruptcy at this point with multiple major projects having significant issue…

boeing also makes weapons and sells them to the us gov. the plane stuff is kind of a side gig. they will be fine no matter how many people they kill.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#18

Post by legitster »

tr_user wrote: post #6

Steps in the right direction, let's get rid of more engineers and replace them with more MBAs. > However, a person familiar with the decision and who asked not to be identified commenting on sensitive personnel decisions, confirmed that Clark’s leaving was not voluntary. > Clark is an engineer. His successor Ringgold has business degrees. However she began her aviation career performing avionics systems maintenance a…

To be fair, the problem this time was with QC - not with engineering.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#19

Post by margalabargala »

bobthepanda wrote: post #14
brianwawok wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so little competition, and it would be so expensive to spin something up… I could see it sputtering along for many years. Who can disrupt this? Need space X level money and research, and not sure the profit potential is as high.

It is really hard. China, Russia and Japan have tried state sponsored schemes without success. Bombardier of Canada had to throw in the towel, and Embraer of Brazil almost did. Part of the problem is also that airlines have been very good at squeezing the duopoly while demanding ever more. The competition, if it manages to get a plane in the air, usually isn’t as fuel efficient and so the airlines have mostly not bee…

> Bombardier of Canada had to throw in the towel

To be fair, that's because Boeing forced them to sell the rights to the A220 for $1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_dumping_petition_by_Bo...

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#20

Post by rmbyrro »

lp4vn wrote: post #15
mikece wrote: post #3

A friend of mine who used to work for Boeing said the downward trend started when they acquired McDonnell Douglas and the MD bean counters took over a lot of top positions at Boeing, displacing engineers. After that cost-cutting became more of an obsession than building awesome aircraft. Makes me wonder how Boeing can avoid descending into bankruptcy at this point with multiple major projects having significant issue…

>Makes me wonder how Boeing can avoid descending into bankruptcy at this point with multiple major projects having significant issues, recalls, and safety issues. Boeing is a duopoly with Airbus and for putting in your hands in a brand new Airbus you will have to join the queue and wait five years. So they benefit from the lack of competition, if the merger with McDonnel had never happened, probably this situation wo…

Embraer seems to have the highest standards, or very close to highest, in the industry now. But I think it's unlikely that they'll be capable and willing to compete with Boeing or Airbus in the near future.
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