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ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

tomshardware.com

11–20 of 136 posts

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#11
post #7

ctrl-f China = 0 results, so here is some context: > ASML’s China Sales Surged Despite Secret Dutch Deal With US https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-25/asml-s-ch... Edit: note to self, don’t beer and then HN.

You should try C-f "Chinese".

“Chin”

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#14
post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

Lol, thank you for link. I was expecting the opposite from this company, but for some reason, after reading this, I'm not surprised at all.

They are physicists and hardware folks, right? I would expect messy code written by convoluted processes for nightmare applications, that somehow works.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#15
post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

From that comment I concluded that software patching speed isn’t a bottleneck there. It sounds frustrating but to be terrible it needs to significantly impede the product or business relationships, which isn’t at all happening.

Stability and long product lifecycles are incredibly important to them. They're pretty much the opposite of move fast and break things or deploy early/deploy often.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that comment I concluded that software patching speed isn’t a bottleneck there. It sounds frustrating but to be terrible it needs to significantly impede the product or business relationships, which isn’t at all happening.

Stability and long product lifecycles are incredibly important to them. They're pretty much the opposite of move fast and break things or deploy early/deploy often.

Try searching how much money is lost by clients if the fab is down. You have to be very careful with software for fabs.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#17
post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

Lol, thank you for link. I was expecting the opposite from this company, but for some reason, after reading this, I'm not surprised at all.

>I was expecting the opposite from this company

Why? Because they're hot on the stock market since the pandemic? Nokia's SW was the same kind of shitshow when it was dominant. IIRC a long time ago someone on HN wrote here that compiling Symbian OS at Nokia took 2 whole days and Nokia management saw no problem with that.

To me, it's exactly what I expect from a HW company, from personal experience. SW is seen just as a necessary evil, another item on the BoM. Oh, and there's a bunch of useless processes designed as jobs programs to keep some useless managers employed, where each of them needs to review your change and give their green light despite them not being up to date on the technical side for >10 years.

I know this because it's exactly the same at another major Dutch semiconductor spin-off from Philipps I was at in a past life.

Just because ASML is hot right now, doesn't mean they value and employ top SW talent, because they don't sell SW, they sell HW and that's what their customers value, and so ASML values physicists and traditional engineers, not SW devs.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#18

I don't want to brag, but buying ASML stocks was probably the smartest financial decision in my life. Also, AMSL & AMAT aren't competing in some areas. AMAT provides tooling & services that assist ASML.

Same, I sold at the peak. Don't hold on to your winners for too long, the stock price is not entirely a function of the company's financial success. A lot of it is just on whims and cycles.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#19

It is a bit of an odd article, they spend half of it describing this as a remarkable turn of events, and the other half describing why it isn’t really an apples-to-apples comparison and how the companies aren’t in direct competition.

The clickbaity titles are leaking into the beginning of their articles.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stability and long product lifecycles are incredibly important to them. They're pretty much the opposite of move fast and break things or deploy early/deploy often.

Try searching how much money is lost by clients if the fab is down. You have to be very careful with software for fabs.

Absolutely. What makes a lot of sense for one organization would be absolutely insane for others. ASML has incredible innovation in some areas but I'd expect them to prioritize stability in others.
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