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Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

scott-fryxell.github.io

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Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#11

Post by jwells89 »

runjake wrote: post #7
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #5

Apple is a consumer product business. They have no reason to care about being a good Unix - that's misunderstanding. And iOS has covered up, and made inaccessible, literally every feature of Unix.

This is correct. Apple used to care about being UNIX, so they could gain traction amongst a certain subset of like-minded power users. But all those like-minded engineers have left (eg. Avi, Bertrand, etc) or drank the new Kool-Aid (eg. Craig). Now, they maintain UNIX certification to comply with contract requirements. I think if they could get away with it, they'd stop shipping Terminal.app as soon as they were able…

> I think if they could get away with it, they'd stop shipping Terminal.app as soon as they were able.

I don’t think believe that’s true. Apple has always treated the Mac differently than its other devices, even back in the iPod days and before. One can still see that today in how for instance they made M-series Macs capable of booting third party operating systems when it would’ve been much easier to not do that, with the architectural base of these machines being iPads. macOS has had some bolts tightened in the past decade, but all of that has legitimate value in security and stability and much of it is being mirrored by other desktop operating systems (e.g. immutable system, moving things out of the kernel to userspace, etc).

Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#12

Post by jauntywundrkind »

> The only way I can enforce my beliefs on the nytimes (and Washington post, WSJ, youtube, and amazon prime) is to use the web.

Values-based positions are all too rare.

The continued hope is that they create some momentum somewhere else. The web ought be more than a parallel, it ought be provibg itself better. Proof will be in the pudding.

Extensions definitely are a "can't get that any other way" example. And I struggle to imagine not being equipped with form auto-saver features, history enhancers, customizable dark mode, and other benefits. But it still feels like just a start.

> The web protects me and because it's text out in the open I can live my personal morality directly. I don't have to ask permission — I can enforce.

Multi-planar combat against that which dogs us; Infernal Machines of closed natures which leave is stranded, high and dry, where we don't have control. We see these threads again and again. Local-capable iot. Apps & services closing down on us.

Recent examples,

Home Assistant: Three years later https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39345122 https://eamonnsullivan.co.uk/posts-output/home-automation-th...

No one cares about open-source, until https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39396130 https://blog.cryptpad.org/2024/02/15/no-one-cares-intil/

Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#13

Post by catchnear4321 »

smoldesu wrote: post #10
catchnear4321 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don’t suppose that whole “europe” thing you so staunchly support could be manipulated by those same wealthy people, do you? sometimes picking a hill to die on is more about dying than hills.

Why would wealthy people support a bill that universally limits the capacity of wealthy companies? To... enable better competition and limit the provenance of Gatekeeper businesses? And that's bad for citizens? You're welcome to explain your theory more but I don't think the thumbtacks are lining up on your proverbial corkboard. > sometimes picking a hill to die on is more about dying than hills. Microsoft quit being…

oh goodness, why would wealthy people care about a single bill? this was never a single generation game.

also rather offensive that you make such an accusation. you’re incorrect, but will you even admit the assertion made so casually?

Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#14

Post by jauntywundrkind »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #8

It feels super awkward to talk about how web is the savior of us all while sending my CPU to the moon to display some text and a screen-filling animated SVG that drops 10 frames for every one that gets displayed.

These feel to me like low complaints. Maybe sometimes, perhaps. Poor code will probably lurk on most platforms, and maybe maybe maybe the web has a bit more, fine, point scored in your zero sum game.

But this is so far away from the defining relevant concerns of software architecture. It's such a simple winge, doing only extremely primitive software analysis. And it doesn't hold for 99.99% of my web experience. My daily driver is a 2016 low power mobile core & most of my web world fairly flies. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/95443/i...

Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#15

Post by jauntywundrkind »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #5

Apple is a consumer product business. They have no reason to care about being a good Unix - that's misunderstanding. And iOS has covered up, and made inaccessible, literally every feature of Unix.

And the author is pointing out that the dissonance of being on a platform that doesn't just have "no reason to care about a good Unix" , but which actively undermines and fights against there being good *nix'es, and worse, good webs, is more than they can chew on.

Good for them heck yes.

Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#16

Post by [deleted] »

catchnear4321 wrote: post #13
smoldesu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would wealthy people support a bill that universally limits the capacity of wealthy companies? To... enable better competition and limit the provenance of Gatekeeper businesses? And that's bad for citizens? You're welcome to explain your theory more but I don't think the thumbtacks are lining up on your proverbial corkboard. > sometimes picking a hill to die on is more about dying than hills. Microsoft quit being…

oh goodness, why would wealthy people care about a single bill? this was never a single generation game. also rather offensive that you make such an accusation. you’re incorrect, but will you even admit the assertion made so casually?

[deleted]

Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#17

Post by smoldesu »

jwells89 wrote: post #11
runjake wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is correct. Apple used to care about being UNIX, so they could gain traction amongst a certain subset of like-minded power users. But all those like-minded engineers have left (eg. Avi, Bertrand, etc) or drank the new Kool-Aid (eg. Craig). Now, they maintain UNIX certification to comply with contract requirements. I think if they could get away with it, they'd stop shipping Terminal.app as soon as they were able…

> I think if they could get away with it, they'd stop shipping Terminal.app as soon as they were able. I don’t think believe that’s true. Apple has always treated the Mac differently than its other devices, even back in the iPod days and before. One can still see that today in how for instance they made M-series Macs capable of booting third party operating systems when it would’ve been much easier to not do that, wi…

> they made M-series Macs capable of booting third party operating systems when it would’ve been much easier to not do that

"much easier" is maybe a stretch. Both options come with their own tradeoffs; rework the boot system to be like iOS and you have to rewrite the software to be compatible. Plus, it's not like their boot process comes with UEFI or a nicely-documented interface; it's a black-box with devicetree drivers. Not unusual for an ARM device, but nobody laid out a welcome-mat.

We shouldn't have to celebrate features not being taken away in the first place. Apple's hostility towards standardization can't be normalized, or else we will literally lose our agnostic internet and telecommunications infrastructure. The industry is suffering from their contempt for cooperation.

Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#18

Post by frfl »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #14
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #8

It feels super awkward to talk about how web is the savior of us all while sending my CPU to the moon to display some text and a screen-filling animated SVG that drops 10 frames for every one that gets displayed.

These feel to me like low complaints. Maybe sometimes, perhaps. Poor code will probably lurk on most platforms, and maybe maybe maybe the web has a bit more, fine, point scored in your zero sum game. But this is so far away from the defining relevant concerns of software architecture. It's such a simple winge, doing only extremely primitive software analysis. And it doesn't hold for 99.99% of my web experience. My da…

The linked website literally causes my fan and cpu, and I'm assuming the commenter's fan cpu too, to go to 100%.

Anyone running the latest and greatest hardware will likely never notice. But 99% of the world doesn't run the latest and greatest. I think there's some irony in all this.

Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#19

Post by jwells89 »

smoldesu wrote: post #17
jwells89 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think if they could get away with it, they'd stop shipping Terminal.app as soon as they were able. I don’t think believe that’s true. Apple has always treated the Mac differently than its other devices, even back in the iPod days and before. One can still see that today in how for instance they made M-series Macs capable of booting third party operating systems when it would’ve been much easier to not do that, wi…

> they made M-series Macs capable of booting third party operating systems when it would’ve been much easier to not do that "much easier" is maybe a stretch. Both options come with their own tradeoffs; rework the boot system to be like iOS and you have to rewrite the software to be compatible. Plus, it's not like their boot process comes with UEFI or a nicely-documented interface; it's a black-box with devicetree dri…

Standardization is an entirely different argument. The point is that it’s unlikely that Apple wants to do away with the Terminal because it treats the Mac differently than it does its other devices.

Re: Same. Leaving Apple Hardware

#20

Post by jwells89 »

frfl wrote: post #18
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These feel to me like low complaints. Maybe sometimes, perhaps. Poor code will probably lurk on most platforms, and maybe maybe maybe the web has a bit more, fine, point scored in your zero sum game. But this is so far away from the defining relevant concerns of software architecture. It's such a simple winge, doing only extremely primitive software analysis. And it doesn't hold for 99.99% of my web experience. My da…

The linked website literally causes my fan and cpu, and I'm assuming the commenter's fan cpu too, to go to 100%. Anyone running the latest and greatest hardware will likely never notice. But 99% of the world doesn't run the latest and greatest. I think there's some irony in all this.

It’s illuminating to try to use a late-era Core 2 Duo (or even Core 2 Quad) machine for all web browsing for a day. Given a cheap SSD upgrade, these systems can handle Windows 10 or a modern Linux distro perfectly well, but the web can bring them to their knees pretty easily. You quickly learn which sites to avoid, but even nominally “good” sites are still sluggish.
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