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Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

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Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#11

Post by psunavy03 »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #3
woofcat wrote: post #2

I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.

> The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Governments have the ability to print money out of thin air. What I'd like to see is how UBI impacts inflation and economic growth.

Google "hyperinflation." Printing money out of thin air causes the existing money to be worth about as much as toilet paper.

Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#12

Post by monero-xmr »

In the US, we gave money to people during the pandemic. Worker shortages in low-skill labor resulted and inflation hit 10%. I think that's the major flaw - young, childless people without responsibility see no reason to work, when they can watch Netflix all day, either paying their mom some token rent or sharing a flop house with a bunch of friends.

Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#13

Post by danpalmer »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #3
woofcat wrote: post #2

I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.

> The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Governments have the ability to print money out of thin air. What I'd like to see is how UBI impacts inflation and economic growth.

Both statements are true. Governments can "print money", but printing money comes with many caveats.

Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#14

Post by tuututututu »

I'd like to make food stamps automatic for everyone. It makes pretty good sense to me. Everyone who has a driver's license or is enrolled in school or is registered to vote gets food stamps. The most hateful southern baptists in my family who are still screaming about Obama's death panels can still agree that donating to food banks is a good idea. I can understand people who say "I don't want to pay higher taxes to support other people." I think that's a shitty philosophy, but I can understand where they're coming from. But if we make food stamps universal, then those people get the benefit they're paying taxes for and some of them will stop complaining. It ensure a basic level of public health and removes the stigma from receiving and using food stamps.

After we take care of that and instill the idea in everyone's mind that automating the basic necessities is good for everyone, we can work on housing, healthcare, and higher education.

Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#15

Post by stray »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #3
woofcat wrote: post #2

I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.

> The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Governments have the ability to print money out of thin air. What I'd like to see is how UBI impacts inflation and economic growth.

What could possibly go wrong?

Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#16

Post by kevingadd »

mjevans wrote: post #5

I would like to counter with first hand observed real world evidence. Raising the minimum wage near where I live (Seattle area) has raised the prices of everything. Rent seeking land owners raise their rents, which passes through to everything and absorbs the water trying to sate the parched desert. IMO either directly supplying what UBI is supposed to provide, or encouraging local supply to match the market need, th…

Minimum wage and ubi are totally different, though? Why would you expect them to have the same effect? Or are you arguing that people need to be poor?

Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#17

Post by SoftTalker »

SirMaster wrote: post #6

When has UBI actually every been tried? I don't think any trials really qualify as "Universal". IMO the universal part is the hard part and changes it drastically. Compared to a small limited trial of giving people money, where does it all come from when it's actually universal? And what are the effects on the overall economy when it's universal?

> what are the effects on the overall economy when it's universal?

Inflation.

Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#18

Post by jvanderbot »

mjevans wrote: post #5

I would like to counter with first hand observed real world evidence. Raising the minimum wage near where I live (Seattle area) has raised the prices of everything. Rent seeking land owners raise their rents, which passes through to everything and absorbs the water trying to sate the parched desert. IMO either directly supplying what UBI is supposed to provide, or encouraging local supply to match the market need, th…

During a time of general inflation, it's difficult to tease out the effects.

Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#19

Post by ToucanLoucan »

woofcat wrote: post #2

I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.

> Is it with new taxation on XYZ

Bring back the 70% corporate tax rate that was considered normal when Reagan was elected. That should give us a solid start. After that take all the money from every billionaire. You can have up to $999,999,999.99 in your bank + assets, and everything after that goes to healthcare and UBI. If you get to a billion, we'll name a dog park after you and you get a little trophy that says you won capitalism.

More importantly though, why is it that the funding of vast government expenditure is only a problem when it stands to benefit the working class? We always have heaps of money for tax cuts for the wealthy, blowing shit up overseas, and buying this year's crop of tanks to replace the ones we're about to shove into a field to rust. How many millions in PPI loans were forgiven, when most people got maybe $2,400 total over COVID when the economy damn near imploded?

Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time

#20

Post by [deleted] »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #3
woofcat wrote: post #2

I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.

> The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Governments have the ability to print money out of thin air. What I'd like to see is how UBI impacts inflation and economic growth.

[deleted]
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