Live data from Hacker News

Running Ethernet over existing coaxial cable

til.simonwillison.net

11–20 of 64 posts

Re: Running Ethernet over existing coaxial cable

#11

I have tried MOCA, but it runs at higher frequencies than cheap European coaxial was designed for (lower frequencies for terrestrial television) and had stability/performance issues due to this. There's an alternative called G.hn over Coaxial, that runs at 100-200Mhz which seems to fair much better on crappy coaxial, at the cost of max bandwidth (500Mbps-1000Mbps) and harder to get hardware. The manufactures of G.hn2…

> The manufactures of G.hn2 Coaxial adapters seem to be stingy about selling them to individuals.

I can find several at Amazon (Germany). For example https://www.amazon.de/GIGA-Copper-Ethernet-Netzwerk-Koaxialk...

Re: Running Ethernet over existing coaxial cable

#12

I have tried MOCA, but it runs at higher frequencies than cheap European coaxial was designed for (lower frequencies for terrestrial television) and had stability/performance issues due to this. There's an alternative called G.hn over Coaxial, that runs at 100-200Mhz which seems to fair much better on crappy coaxial, at the cost of max bandwidth (500Mbps-1000Mbps) and harder to get hardware. The manufactures of G.hn2…

I have ancient coax in the US on my house built in the 70s, leading to syncing at lower bandwidth often on my moca, sometimes as low as 100Mb. Luckily it runs outside the house, so at some point I’ll replace it with newer cable and actually get the theoretical 2.5 Gb.

Re: Running Ethernet over existing coaxial cable

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the cables were run in conduits AND if there aren't any sharp turns AND if you own the place or got your landlord's permission.

Yes. All true. I just hate the coax in my house. It pisses me off every time I see there they installed it by just drilling a hole in the facade.

I bought a house in a locality that requires conduit for all in-wall wiring (including low voltage) by code. This annoys most people, but I love it since it means you can upgrade stuff easily in the future if you desire.

This house did not have cat5 installed anywhere, but it had both coax and cat3 for the old school phone lines/intercom system.

During the inspection I removed some wall plates and noted that there indeed appeared to be properly installed conduit in every box I spot-checked. Inspectors noted the same.

After I moved in and got all the supplies ordered and staged to start removing coax/cat3 using them as pull strings for my expensive fancy new CAT6 wiring I found out something super fun...

The builder had decided to cheat the code inspectors by installing every single box with only about a foot of conduit attached to the boxes. After that they simply stapled the wiring to the studs every so often making pulling cable with them impossible. At least it appears they did indeed use conduit for the AC power.

Not entirely related to your point, but it's something that still makes my blood pressure increase a tick even remembering it enough to describe here.

What went from a weekend of pulling new cable with conveniently placed pull strings turned in to a month's-long ordeal of running new cat6 through the house and then another couple weeks of drywall repair for all the holes needed to do so.

Re: Running Ethernet over existing coaxial cable

#14
post #6

There’s something even better than MOCA. Black electrical tape. You tape the cat5 to the end of the coax and then pull really hard and then you get great performance.

i believe, in usa, according to building code wires should be stapled to studs (if wiring done during construction). i tried to pull out one stapled wire, it didn't really work

Re: Running Ethernet over existing coaxial cable

#15
There are also PoE over Coax devices if your house (like mine) was setup with NTSC security cameras: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G194BQD

This device picks up PoE power and ethernet at one end and delivers up to 21w at 100m to the remote end (less for longer runs). Enough to run most IP cameras. Speed is only 100Mbps (up to 300m, 10Mbps at 1000m) but that's more than enough for 4k live streaming.

It also supports transmission over twisted pair instead of coax. You can use that to pipe Ethernet and PoE over twisted pair doorbell or phone wire. Apparently a common usage is getting Ethernet onto older elevators over the legacy twisted pair emergency phone line. How much bandwidth and power you get depends on the quality and type of wire - in my experience it does a decent job adapting to conditions.

Re: Running Ethernet over existing coaxial cable

#17
post #6

There’s something even better than MOCA. Black electrical tape. You tape the cat5 to the end of the coax and then pull really hard and then you get great performance.

If the cables were run in conduits AND if there aren't any sharp turns AND if you own the place or got your landlord's permission.

I will eat my hat if anyone installing coax actually uses conduits, the kind of people doing the installation -- your cable provider gives zero shits. Avoiding "sharp turns" should be no issue since in your average home you're not gonna need >4 quarter turns that would necessitate a junction box.

Re: Running Ethernet over existing coaxial cable

#19
Cat 5 is more than adequate to do gigabit for even huge houses.

If some conductors aren't connected, have bad connections, or the order of wires is wrong, then many gigabit ports will negotiate to 100 Mbps, which only requires four working wires out of the eight.

A cable tester from Micro Center (if you're lucky enough to have one close enough to visit) is $7.99, plus a 9 volt battery (which, funnily, is about half the price of the cable tester). Amazon has the same testers for around $10.

MoCA is great, particularly if you're using cable boxes that require Internet over MoCA and you want to replace the NAT router your ISP provides, but it's a bit silly to use MoCA when you have wires that probably just need to be re-terminated or terminated properly.

Re: Running Ethernet over existing coaxial cable

#20

I bet there was something physically wrong with the cat5 wiring as the actual reason it couldn't do gigabit.

Regular cat5 is only rated at 100mbit. 5e will handle gigabit, and I've seen 5 work for short runs too.

5e will not just handle gigabit, it's enough to run 2.5gig at spec to 100 meters.

5 has the same bandwidth as 5e but allows more crosstalk. And gigabit is intended to work on cat5. If gigabit is not working on cat5 cables <50m, I put my money on there being something wrong with the hardware/install in that house.

Post reply on HN