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28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

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Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#11

Post by justsomehnguy »

IshKebab wrote: post #3

Definitely seems more feasible than a lot of crazy energy ideas! E.g. I think this makes more sense than the air versions because you don't have problems launching/landing or when the wind stops. Probably the biggest issues I could imagine are maintenance and wildlife. They might be minor issues though. Also in most of the world (maybe not the Faroe Islands) this has to compete with solar & batteries which are gettin…

> maybe not the Faroe Islands

Capital and largest city:

Tórshavn, 62°00′N 06°47′W

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#12

Post by throwbadubadu »

More renewable is good.. but there is always one fear in my crazy mind about these: This isn't actually renewable but taking energy out of a huge reservoir (Same for solar if pea counting, but solar is really endless until the end of the solar system).. and if we'd scale it massively the result could be another catastrophe. (Same btw. with geothermal?).

(Btw.. I maybe got tidal wrong, so if it is just taking energy from waves via wind this counts as endless solar. Still, consider systems which would really break the tides and take energy out of the earthmoon system).

The answer to this fear is that this reservoirs are so massive they are quasi endless in regard to what we ever could take out? It is hard to find numbers for these crazy thoughts :)

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#13

Post by usrusr »

Someone wrote: post #8
IshKebab wrote: post #3

Definitely seems more feasible than a lot of crazy energy ideas! E.g. I think this makes more sense than the air versions because you don't have problems launching/landing or when the wind stops. Probably the biggest issues I could imagine are maintenance and wildlife. They might be minor issues though. Also in most of the world (maybe not the Faroe Islands) this has to compete with solar & batteries which are gettin…

> Probably the biggest issues I could imagine are maintenance and wildlife. They might be minor issues though. Might, yes, but I think it’s unlikely all problems will be minor. Salt water isn’t kind to metal, no matter how well painted. Also, I expect barnacles will start growing on it. If you’re a filter feeder, this may be even better than sitting on the sea bed or on a whale. Question will be how much that effects…

The good news is that we do have a bit of experience with metal machines that operate in sea water for decades. We (as in humanity, I don't) know exactly what to expect. You'd want to have a permanent service operation scaled exactly to how much overhauling capacity you need to put the tide kites in a round robin maintenance loop.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#14

Post by tetha »

Since the number 1.2MW didn't mean much to me, modern on-shore wind turbines seem to supply 3-4MW and offshore ones 8 - 12MW.

But this seems a lot easier to transport and install compared to cranes and the nightmare of navigating turbine blades on trucks through places. And if these hold up to water and don't cause too many problems for wildlife, there would be a lot less discussions about these "messing up my skyline", while tapping a new source of energy.

Quite interesting and cool.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#15

Post by out_of_protocol »

tetha wrote: post #14

Since the number 1.2MW didn't mean much to me, modern on-shore wind turbines seem to supply 3-4MW and offshore ones 8 - 12MW. But this seems a lot easier to transport and install compared to cranes and the nightmare of navigating turbine blades on trucks through places. And if these hold up to water and don't cause too many problems for wildlife, there would be a lot less discussions about these "messing up my skylin…

> too many problems for wildlife

There were a meta-analysis regarding population of birds in areas with/without wind turbines, found no statistically significant difference (unlike coal, where difference was huge)

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#17

Post by himinlomax »

mywacaday wrote: post #4
bruce511 wrote: post #2

The sea is a harsh environment, but the energy it contains, in the form of waves (basically concentrated wind) and tides is enormous (partly thanks to the density of water.) Of course, like with all renewable, location matters. But there are lots of places with strong tides, and lots of places with reliable waves. Harvesting this abundant energy at scale, with reasonable maintenence costs will be the next breakthroug…

I've often thought why not dam a whole estuary or bay and use hydro to collect the energy on the the fall and rise of the tide. I know the environmental impact wouldake it unpalatable but are there any reasons it wouldn't work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_Tidal_Power_Station

240 MW, built in 1966.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#18

Post by lm28469 »

throwbadubadu wrote: post #12

More renewable is good.. but there is always one fear in my crazy mind about these: This isn't actually renewable but taking energy out of a huge reservoir (Same for solar if pea counting, but solar is really endless until the end of the solar system).. and if we'd scale it massively the result could be another catastrophe. (Same btw. with geothermal?). (Btw.. I maybe got tidal wrong, so if it is just taking energy f…

> (Same btw. with geothermal?).

Not a chance, we're barely scratching the surface

> More renewable is good.. but there is always one fear in my crazy mind about these

It depends a lot on the rate of maintenance, materials used, &c. For example small windmills are next to useless: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/04/small-windmills-pu...

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#19

Post by zakary »

throwbadubadu wrote: post #12

More renewable is good.. but there is always one fear in my crazy mind about these: This isn't actually renewable but taking energy out of a huge reservoir (Same for solar if pea counting, but solar is really endless until the end of the solar system).. and if we'd scale it massively the result could be another catastrophe. (Same btw. with geothermal?). (Btw.. I maybe got tidal wrong, so if it is just taking energy f…

You’re right that nothing is unlimited. Luckily in this case, the energy of waves and tides is given to the oceans mostly by the gravity of the moon pulling the water as it passes overhead. Also a little bit by the wind which is fed by solar heat energy. The moon is slowly moving away from earth and eventually, in hundred of millions of years, it will impart significantly less energy into the tides.

The energy that the moon gives the tides is essentially the same as how the sun gives energy to the ground with light. That is to say: If we don’t collect it, it just gets turned into another kind of energy that is absorbed by the environment. For tides and waves that would be mostly heat, and a little sound. And most of that heat would eventually be radiated back out into space. So suffice it to say, while there is a finite pool of energy stored in the tides, it is so massive we could never make a difference, and it gets recharged everyday by the moon.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#20

Post by HPsquared »

throwbadubadu wrote: post #12

More renewable is good.. but there is always one fear in my crazy mind about these: This isn't actually renewable but taking energy out of a huge reservoir (Same for solar if pea counting, but solar is really endless until the end of the solar system).. and if we'd scale it massively the result could be another catastrophe. (Same btw. with geothermal?). (Btw.. I maybe got tidal wrong, so if it is just taking energy f…

There's also ocean thermal energy conversion, which exploits the temperature gradient in the ocean.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_convers...

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