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Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

forbes.com

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Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#11

Post by ap22213 »

When I was a poor kid from the rust belt, I dreamed of becoming an adult and getting a Phd. and talking deeply with the intellectual elite. I never got that Phd. but I became happily upper middle class, and thus got to hang out with a lot of Phds., often from good schools. Not surprisingly, many of them came from upper-class areas, and upper middle class or wealthy families.

What surprised me of this bunch was the general lack of curiosity, passion, and depth that many of them had - it jarred my world view. These were people that I dreamed of being around, when I was a kid. And, they just seemed like normal people, nothing special.

Over much time and after talking with many of them, I realized that many had pursued the Phd. (or equivalent) not because of any innate passion or ability, but just because that was what was expected of them. They did it because that's what people did in their world. It was then that I realized that many poor kids from the rust belt probably just did what they believed that people did.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#12

Post by tgrass »

aik wrote: post #9
joedev wrote: post #5

"On average, a four-year degree is the equivalent of an investment that returns 15.2% a year." - http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/30/a-college-degree-r... Stay in school kids.

Interesting, but it doesn't necessarily take into account the opportunity cost due to the very significant time investment. But more importantly, you know there's something wrong with the system when so many feel they have to try to justify the cost. Meaning, I think many realize that the investment is in the credential, not the learning that takes place due to the institution. I long for the day when a sufficient al…

The opportunity cost does not have to be more than one's liesure time. I worked thirty hours a week as a waiter in engineering undergrad and was a part time single dad. I averaged 17K a year. This is not unusual.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#13

Post by randomdata »

joedev wrote: post #5

"On average, a four-year degree is the equivalent of an investment that returns 15.2% a year." - http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/30/a-college-degree-r... Stay in school kids.

I'm not a fan of this kind of interpretation because it treats everyone as an equal. People derive joy from different things in life.

Some people work to live and will only do the bare minimum to get by in order to fulfill their real joys. Those people are less likely to go to college, and are less likely to earn high incomes, because the passion isn't there.

Others live to work. These people love what they do. They go to college because they love it. Then they work really hard to be the best when they enter the workforce, because they love it. The money follows to these people, because they've worked really hard to earn it.

If you forced someone in the former group to go through college, their income coming out is not going to rise. They are still not going to put forth the what it takes to be a higher earner. It's not in their nature, and that's okay.

As they say, correlation does not imply causation. Your earning potential is essentially given to you at birth, plus the luck factor. On a macro level, college isn't going to have any effect on your earnings.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#14

Post by jcromartie »

aik wrote: post #7
rglover wrote: post #4

I wish I could recall the name, but I read an essay on the general concept of this topic not too long ago. Essentially the author referenced how schools are stratified into a series of groups: lower class, lower middle class, upper middle class, and elite (not sure if these are 100% accurate). The author explained (from a series of in-person observations) the differences in education at each of the various levels. Ch…

I'm curious where this came from. I wonder if it can also be broken into something like: [1] Public school: low, low and mid classes [2] Alternative school (private or public): upper mid class [3] Best private schools: elite With [2] and [3] making use of alternative education models (e.g. Montessori, Waldorf, Democratic), and most importantly recognizing that EVEN STUDENTS can be fairly competent human beings that h…

I've seen [3] at public schools, from a very slim handful of teachers. Those teachers tended to generate strongly polarized opinions about themselves among students.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#15

Post by arethuza »

rglover wrote: post #4

I wish I could recall the name, but I read an essay on the general concept of this topic not too long ago. Essentially the author referenced how schools are stratified into a series of groups: lower class, lower middle class, upper middle class, and elite (not sure if these are 100% accurate). The author explained (from a series of in-person observations) the differences in education at each of the various levels. Ch…

From what I can see, there is also a pretty strong correlation in the UK between the "rank" of a school and the amount of time pupils spend playing sports (particularly rugby) as part of the curriculum - presumably for the perceived leadership/team-building that these sports are believed to promote.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#16

Post by ntkachov »

Most of these things, I think, stem from the fact that it's much easier to take care of a class that believes in all 9 facts, than to take care of a class that doesn't.

How many teachers could justify the 5 paragraph essay if all the kids started questioning them on the arbitrariness of that number?

If you reward that kid that's really easy for you to take care off the others will follow, right?

Standardized tests measure your value because they measure the teachers value (in paychecks).

I have little respect for the school system. It's basically rigged to make the teachers lives as simple as possible and make the kids as miserable as possible.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#17

Post by kitsune_ »

Errr? I don't know what schools are like in the Unites States, but I was probably taught the exact opposite of what is presented in this Forbes Article. For instance:

"The people in charge have all the answers." > My history teacher would like to have word with you.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#18

Post by tyree732 »

rmc wrote: post #10
joedev wrote: post #5

"On average, a four-year degree is the equivalent of an investment that returns 15.2% a year." - http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/30/a-college-degree-r... Stay in school kids.

How much of that is due to having more knowledge, and how much is classism? i.e. having upper class parents is probably a very high return aswell. Also that only really works once. If spent 40 years, doing 10 4 year degrees, by this logic, I'd be a multibillionare right? Something is wrong with this theory.

> Also that only really works once. If spent 40 years, doing 10 4 year degrees, by this logic, I'd be a multibillionare right? Something is wrong with this theory.

I can't imagine that the authors claimed anything more than that.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#19

Post by sopooneo »

ap22213 wrote: post #11

When I was a poor kid from the rust belt, I dreamed of becoming an adult and getting a Phd. and talking deeply with the intellectual elite. I never got that Phd. but I became happily upper middle class, and thus got to hang out with a lot of Phds., often from good schools. Not surprisingly, many of them came from upper-class areas, and upper middle class or wealthy families. What surprised me of this bunch was the ge…

That is exactly my experience in growing up in a poor rural area and getting a big scholarship to a fancy private liberal arts school. I had lived and breathed ideas and that naturally led to good grades. I assumed that the first day of college would be like those rare episodes of the Simpsons where Lisa finally meets a group she fits in with. I was, frankly, devastated. These people weren't smarter or more curious, they were just richer and better educated. My wife, on the other hand, went to a huge state school, but enrolled in the inner honors college within it, and had much more of the experience I had been looking for.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#20

Post by joedev »

aik wrote: post #9
joedev wrote: post #5

"On average, a four-year degree is the equivalent of an investment that returns 15.2% a year." - http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/30/a-college-degree-r... Stay in school kids.

Interesting, but it doesn't necessarily take into account the opportunity cost due to the very significant time investment. But more importantly, you know there's something wrong with the system when so many feel they have to try to justify the cost. Meaning, I think many realize that the investment is in the credential, not the learning that takes place due to the institution. I long for the day when a sufficient al…

If you read the study you'll find it does take into account opportunity costs.
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