Good step, but companies will find untested alternatives. “9 out of 12,000”
This is the inevitable process of humanity's understanding of technology.
The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
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Re: The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
#12We really need a concept of scale when it comes to branding a chemical "toxic". Small amounts for particular purposes are not harmful. Being everywhere may cause some problems.
I don't follow. Are you saying we should hold off laws that deem e.g. teflon toxic, until there's teflon everywhere? The government: There's almost no teflon in the ground, so that's good. The market: Hold my beer.
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Re: The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
#13As a society we're going to have to have a come to Jesus moment about all of these estrogenic chemicals that make up the plastics we consume.
try the "Green Chemistry" movement about two decades ago, or the close relation "Body Burden" PR campaigns.. the message was clear and the science was not mysterious. Some percentage of people responded, the markets and products .. well.. look around
Re: The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
#14As a society we're going to have to have a come to Jesus moment about all of these estrogenic chemicals that make up the plastics we consume.
This is one thing I’m hopeful about for EVs. Plastic is cheap because of massive demand scaling the oil industry, collapse the demand for oil and plastic becomes more expensive.
Re: The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't follow. Are you saying we should hold off laws that deem e.g. teflon toxic, until there's teflon everywhere? The government: There's almost no teflon in the ground, so that's good. The market: Hold my beer.
No, he's saying we shouldn't use PFAS for carpet or military firefighting, but we should for semiconductor manufacturing where we have control over waste streams.
Nobody is talking about banning them outright for all purpose here though.
Re: The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
#16We really need a concept of scale when it comes to branding a chemical "toxic". Small amounts for particular purposes are not harmful. Being everywhere may cause some problems.
That's literally how it works today.
And that's part of the problem with PFAS, because you can release them in tiny fractions (not toxic at this scale) but they end up concentrating in the food chain and people are still being harmed in the end.
Re: The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
#17Re: The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
#18As a society we're going to have to have a come to Jesus moment about all of these estrogenic chemicals that make up the plastics we consume.
Fucking hell. I half wish I wouldn’t have read what I read after googling "estrogen plastics"
Re: The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
#19Good step, but companies will find untested alternatives. “9 out of 12,000”
This is the inevitable process of humanity's understanding of technology.
My understanding is that in a lot of countries, the perspective is backwards from what we have in the US. We have, "prove it's harmful." They have "prove it's safe".
You can still progress technologically without being reckless.
Re: The EPA is proposing that 'forever chemicals' be considered hazardous substances
#20We really need a concept of scale when it comes to branding a chemical "toxic". Small amounts for particular purposes are not harmful. Being everywhere may cause some problems.
I don't follow. Are you saying we should hold off laws that deem e.g. teflon toxic, until there's teflon everywhere? The government: There's almost no teflon in the ground, so that's good. The market: Hold my beer.
Teflon (PTFE) is not toxic. It is approved by the FDA for use in implantable medical devices. At normal working temperatures, it is one of the most chemically and biologically inert materials known to exist. PTFE has a number of unique properties that make it an irreplaceable material in a wide variety of applications.
Some of the feedstock chemicals used to produce PTFE are likely toxic. The most concerning of these is perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA); this is one of the chemicals that the EPA proposal applies to. Most manufacturers of PTFE have already voluntarily phased out the use of PFOA. There is some debate about whether the replacement feedstock chemicals are meaningfully less toxic. These feedstock chemicals can - and should - be prevented from ever entering the environment, which would largely nullify concerns about their toxicity.