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Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

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Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#11

Post by askonomm »

HellDunkel wrote: post #6
appplemac wrote: post #4

Instead of a 4-day workweek how about setting reasonable hiring standards so that hundreds of thousands of people out of work, especially non-native German speakers, have a chance of getting past the job application screen. Most jobs, even in tech, in DE currently require good knowledge of German, and "good" is being interpreted as near-native.

That is not true. Not in germany, not from my experience. If you speak english you are good. Your colleagues will be happy to pratice their english too.

Big Berlin start-ups probably are fine in English, but from most of the browsing on LinkedIn, I'd say if you venture out of the big start-up scene, you won't find English there, and that's the vast majority of tech jobs.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#12

Post by khazhoux »

askonomm wrote: post #2

I once brought up the idea of a 4-day work week to a PM I worked with, and her immediate reaction was very defensive, as she could not understand why would anyone want to work less, and who then would get all the work done. It made me realize that not all people actually want more freedom, some are most likely stockholm syndrom-ed to their job, and these are the people the rest of us are up against trying make positi…

You seem to infer an emotional or psychological reaction to what is a rather straightforward question: today people typically work 5 days/week to get some amount of work done, so the most-simple assessment is that working 80% of that time would result in 80% of the work being done.

Rather than saying people are stockholm-syndrome'd ants who dislike freedom and positive changes, by what reasoning does 100% of work get done in 80% of the time?

Potential ideas would include:

* Maybe people today spend 20% or more of their week slacking off. If they can eliminate that slack-off time, they could have every Friday off.

* People could "work faster/harder" and get the same amount of work done in less time?

* Maybe we don't need all this work to get done anyway? But then what are the side effects? 20% fewer medical services, restaurants, groceries, deliveries, plumbing, construction, government operations...?

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#14

Post by lm28469 »

appplemac wrote: post #4

Instead of a 4-day workweek how about setting reasonable hiring standards so that hundreds of thousands of people out of work, especially non-native German speakers, have a chance of getting past the job application screen. Most jobs, even in tech, in DE currently require good knowledge of German, and "good" is being interpreted as near-native.

How dare people from a country mandate colleagues to speak the country's language!

I guess that's what happens when digital nomad ideology collides with the real world...

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#15

Post by hotpotamus »

appplemac wrote: post #4

Instead of a 4-day workweek how about setting reasonable hiring standards so that hundreds of thousands of people out of work, especially non-native German speakers, have a chance of getting past the job application screen. Most jobs, even in tech, in DE currently require good knowledge of German, and "good" is being interpreted as near-native.

I always assumed that if I moved to a different country and took a job there, I'd need to learn the language. It's part of what makes emigrating seem difficult actually.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#17

Post by anticensor »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #3

I wish someone would investigate what a 6 day week would look like(4 work, 2 off). This article was always a fun exercise what if scenario and if world wide agreement could come to be, would be an innovation on par with the 40 hour work week. https://calendars.fandom.com/wiki/6-Day_Week_Solar_Calendar_...

Religious people would object violently.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#18

Post by shasts »

appplemac wrote: post #4

Instead of a 4-day workweek how about setting reasonable hiring standards so that hundreds of thousands of people out of work, especially non-native German speakers, have a chance of getting past the job application screen. Most jobs, even in tech, in DE currently require good knowledge of German, and "good" is being interpreted as near-native.

Can confirm this.

My wife has a master's degree in engineering from a TU9(top 9 universities in Germany).And a B2 language certificate. She has not found a job so far. Been more than a year and half since she started actively applying. At times she ticks all the requirements in the job description, and still no luck.

She is planning to go to a bakery starting next week. The guy at the bakery was so surprised to see someone with master's degree in engineering ready to work at a bakery. So the perception and reality is different.

Unless you are in IT/software development, it is hard to get a job. Traditional engineering disciplines are hard to break into.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#19

Post by askonomm »

khazhoux wrote: post #12
askonomm wrote: post #2

I once brought up the idea of a 4-day work week to a PM I worked with, and her immediate reaction was very defensive, as she could not understand why would anyone want to work less, and who then would get all the work done. It made me realize that not all people actually want more freedom, some are most likely stockholm syndrom-ed to their job, and these are the people the rest of us are up against trying make positi…

You seem to infer an emotional or psychological reaction to what is a rather straightforward question: today people typically work 5 days/week to get some amount of work done, so the most-simple assessment is that working 80% of that time would result in 80% of the work being done. Rather than saying people are stockholm-syndrome'd ants who dislike freedom and positive changes, by what reasoning does 100% of work get…

Or maybe if people had more time to enjoy life with their hobbies and loved ones, they'd be more motivated to do good work, and actually more would get done with 4 days than 5 days. From the few experiments[0] done on this topic, that seems to actually be the case.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/21/four-day-...

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#20

Post by mushufasa »

I spent the summer in Berlin and, as an American, was a bit culture shocked by how little time people worked, and how so many people I met bragged about collecting paid time off for reasons they admitted to making up, which the government enforced all employers must allow. As an employer, I'd be afraid of hiring in countries like Germany for an international workforce if that meant I have to have a patchwork of special policies to treat those workers differently, and I would not be excited about the unambitious "antiwork" ethos
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