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Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

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Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#11

Post by madeofpalk »

threeseed wrote: post #7
librish wrote: post #5

I'm surprised that so many developers are siding with Apple in this regard. If other stores and payment options were allowed I genuinely believe that: - Apple's own fees would be reduced relatively quickly - Technological savvy users will be able to discern which external sites are safe and get even lower prices when available - Very few companies will be able to afford not being on the App Store (especially if Apple…

That's because most iOS developers aren't confused about the situation. Apple's commission is for the App Store, SDKs, Developer Support etc. Not just a payment processing fee. And so if there are other stores and payment options which there will be soon Apple is still within their right to collect that fee. As every court around the world has said. They could collect it as a percentage of sales like Epic or just lum…

No one is confused (by these rules). But that doesn’t mean developers like it. I haven’t seen a single reaction from developers supportive of this.

They seem hell bent on destroying whatever reputation and good will they have left on chasing those casino games for kids.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#12

Post by librish »

threeseed wrote: post #7
librish wrote: post #5

I'm surprised that so many developers are siding with Apple in this regard. If other stores and payment options were allowed I genuinely believe that: - Apple's own fees would be reduced relatively quickly - Technological savvy users will be able to discern which external sites are safe and get even lower prices when available - Very few companies will be able to afford not being on the App Store (especially if Apple…

That's because most iOS developers aren't confused about the situation. Apple's commission is for the App Store, SDKs, Developer Support etc. Not just a payment processing fee. And so if there are other stores and payment options which there will be soon Apple is still within their right to collect that fee. As every court around the world has said. They could collect it as a percentage of sales like Epic or just lum…

Then force them to unbundle those fees if they want to collect them. It just doesn't make any sense that some developers have to pay up to 30% of their iOS revenue while others (including huge corporations like Uber, Starbucks, Target etc) pay nothing.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#13

Post by smoldesu »

speedylight wrote: post #9

I don’t understand this issue too well to feel one or another. I just want all of my purchases and subscriptions to remain tied to my Apple ID and cancelable from my place. It makes life so much easier and saves money because it’s very hard to forget about subscriptions I no longer use when they’re all listed in one place. Also if I want to refund a purchase for whatever reason I can deal directly with Apple instead…

> I just want all of my purchases and subscriptions to remain tied to my Apple ID and cancelable from my place.

That's what you get in a world with sideloading. The apps you've bought will remain on the App Store for as long as the developer extends agreements with Apple. If you don't sideload, your App Store purchases will be consolidated and organized however Apple chooses for you. You lose nothing.

The worst-case scenario for you is that your favorite developer stops using the App Store; but that's also a possibility regardless of sideloading. If a compelling alternative makes Apple's offerings seem weak, then it's up to Apple to respond.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#14

Post by talkingtab »

This is an example of the incredible arrogance of companies like Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft and Facebook. They have the ability to pour an enormous amount of money into lawyers and lobbying so that even companies like Epic or countries like the Netherlands have little chance of controlling misbehavior. Even the IRS is having a hard time getting Microsoft to pay their 28 BILLION dollar tax bill.

It should be clear that this is not a developer issue. These companies have complete contempt for their customers. It is not the developer who pays Apple, it is you.

At some point, customers will find a way to return that contempt.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#15

Post by detourdog »

librish wrote: post #5

I'm surprised that so many developers are siding with Apple in this regard. If other stores and payment options were allowed I genuinely believe that: - Apple's own fees would be reduced relatively quickly - Technological savvy users will be able to discern which external sites are safe and get even lower prices when available - Very few companies will be able to afford not being on the App Store (especially if Apple…

Probably a familiarity with how brick and mortar business work and what it was like when software came in a box.

30% or 15% for one stop global distribution and multi-jurisdictional tax collecting is a deal all day long.

Could Spotify have bootstrapped itself without the App Store?

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#17

Post by MBCook »

librish wrote: post #5

I'm surprised that so many developers are siding with Apple in this regard. If other stores and payment options were allowed I genuinely believe that: - Apple's own fees would be reduced relatively quickly - Technological savvy users will be able to discern which external sites are safe and get even lower prices when available - Very few companies will be able to afford not being on the App Store (especially if Apple…

I think Apple should’ve won the lawsuit. Epic broke TOS they agreed to, got punished, and whined a bunch to the court. They deserved to lose as they largely did. They’re also not innocent. They don’t want to get rid of all of this, they want the middleman cashing in to be THEMSELVES, not Apple. They’re no underdog hero.

Apple is doing something incredibly stupid and absolutely killing their relationship with developers. Right when they need it most. They should fix that, but won’t. Wall Street would crucify them for daring to lose revenue. And regulators should probably limit how much they can charge.

But this lawsuit was not the way for that to happen. Don’t root for a bad lawsuit just ‘cause you hate the plaintiff. Fix it the right way.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#18

Post by bmoxb »

danielvaughn wrote: post #4
spacebacon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fun and games when you have that much cash.

Fun and games until a competitor arrives on the market with a solid developer experience. As soon as that happens, I’m dropping Apple like a bad habit. The only thing keeping me on their tech is my hatred for Android’s UX. Heck, if the Windows phone was still around, I’d probably be on that.

I'm not advocating in either direction, but I'm curious what elements of iOS's UX you prefer over Android's?

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#20

Post by TillE »

librish wrote: post #12
threeseed wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because most iOS developers aren't confused about the situation. Apple's commission is for the App Store, SDKs, Developer Support etc. Not just a payment processing fee. And so if there are other stores and payment options which there will be soon Apple is still within their right to collect that fee. As every court around the world has said. They could collect it as a percentage of sales like Epic or just lum…

Then force them to unbundle those fees if they want to collect them. It just doesn't make any sense that some developers have to pay up to 30% of their iOS revenue while others (including huge corporations like Uber, Starbucks, Target etc) pay nothing.

It's 15% for any developer making under $1 million. Even if we think the SDKs should be free, you're not going to find a significantly better deal for payment (with Apple handling all sales taxes etc), auto updates, crash reporting, etc etc.

Smaller developers aren't being ripped off, not anymore. There's a philosophical argument that Apple shouldn't control your device, but that really has nothing to do with the 30% they charge larger companies.

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