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AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

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Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#11
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

I agree, except for the OpenAI part. These subscriptions are currently much cheaper than labor - about 100x even for poorly paid jobs - and so there is simply not that much value to capture in terms of total size of the economy. In other words, if the employee costs $2000 and OpenAI charges $20, then $1980 are captured by the company using the tech, not OpenAI. So there would be a problem of course, but it‘s not like the value would necessarily go just to the tech industry. Instead it might go increasingly to those who own „the means of production“ to use a Marxist term for analysis purposes.

And if the prices they charge go up, it should be possible to compete with open products.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#12
I too remember 2017 and headlines about millions upon millions of people being replaced by robots around 2025. I even saw videos of little bots peforming the job of baristas, trucks self driving, and all sorts of other crazy things. Not that they are not doable but you know, they are difficult to implement by people that have no clue how things work, let alone how humans interact.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#13
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

How can there be profits without wage income to buy the output?

The paradox of productivity will kick in and prices will plummet.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#14
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

Realistic view: Unemployment is actually at an all time low despite centuries of industrialization, automation, etc.

AI technology is becoming a commodity at a rapid rate. OpenAI has some nice data moat but their tech is being copied left right and center and much of what they do has been replicated successfully by others; including some open source projects. I don't see OpenAI end up with all the profit here.

AI is a transformative technology for sure. But just like previous introductions of transformative technology it won't play out as doom predictors predict.

Most of the goods we buy and consume are actually produced in parts of the world where workers are exploited just fine without the help of AI. The dystopia already exists; just not in our little bubble. And a lot of those places have leveled up quite a bit economically in recent decades. So things aren't that bad anymore.

Our own past is actually built on the dystopia of the industrial revolution where people had no rights and worked until they dropped dead. Most of us on this forum have jobs that most of those people would not have considered real work. Hence us procrastinating on hacker news instead of doing real work.

AI will cause more of that to happen everywhere. But we'll find ways to keep ourselves busy. And more free time means that we can do things that are valuable to us. And what are economies other than just the accumulation of things we value? It used to be that we mostly valued not starving to death. Most of our economies were basically related to food production. Now food production is only a tiny part of our economies. We found more valuable things to do. Whatever AIs do or don't do, we'll find a way to find new things that are valuable to us. AIs simply expand our economy to include more such things. That's what transformative technology does. It grows our economies.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#16
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

then you will simply see those jobs being moved/outsourced to the third world without regulations, just like virtually all manufacturing did. china, russia, india and a ton of other countries won't give a shit about 'global moratorium on AI research' and 'assault GPU ban'. US+EU are a fraction of the world's population.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#17
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

Realistic view: Unemployment is actually at an all time low despite centuries of industrialization, automation, etc. AI technology is becoming a commodity at a rapid rate. OpenAI has some nice data moat but their tech is being copied left right and center and much of what they do has been replicated successfully by others; including some open source projects. I don't see OpenAI end up with all the profit here. AI is…

> much of what they do has been replicated successfully by others; including some open source projects

This is true, except for GPT4 which no one has been able to even come close to in actual usage.

As long as OpenAI maintains the lead by making the very best model available via a consumer-friendly interfaces, and via API, I'd wager they remain in the lead.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#18
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

Realistic view: Unemployment is actually at an all time low despite centuries of industrialization, automation, etc. AI technology is becoming a commodity at a rapid rate. OpenAI has some nice data moat but their tech is being copied left right and center and much of what they do has been replicated successfully by others; including some open source projects. I don't see OpenAI end up with all the profit here. AI is…

I wholeheartedly agree (at least in the near future of a decade or so). IMO the only thing HN needs to worry about is that this round it could be the programmers that are one of the careers obsoleted and all the really well paid jobs will be things that require being good with your hands. So maybe people who are paid to think have jobs, but it is paid more like retail work.

Which; y'know, fair enough if that does happen. Worse problems to have. Mankind will be in a great spot. I always wanted to learn to weld.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#19
By now I think many people have seen my takes on this forum regarding AI and know I'm an enthusiastic skeptic. I think the capability of this technology is being exaggerated to the benefit of the large corporations that have made huge investments in it. I think a lot of the so called AI experts have put their eggs in the basket of throwing a shit load of data at a pretty limited number of relatively simple models. I think a lot of the people trying to apply AI to every field they can get their hands on are non-experts in that field and lack the knowledge and skill to know if their AI is any good or if it's just dogshit. I think LLMs will never be reliable enough for applications where correctness matters and we're never going to solve the hallucination problem. I think the people telling you we can solve those problems are trying to sell you something. I think the end result of all this bullshit is going to be a lot of wasted computational cycles and an entirely undeserved devaluation of knowledge work until the MBAs trying to fire all their knowledge workers realize they've made a huge mistake. I think this technology is going to make the internet worse and the biggest beneficiaries are the charletans and liars that never cared about truth in the first place.

Re: AI Will Transform the Global Economy. Let's Make Sure It Benefits Humanity

#20
post #5

Cynical view: without new regulation in the area of AI, it will reduce the value of labor in many domains and completely eliminate the need for it in many others. Profits will go to companies like OpenAI, unemployment will rise and people will be left to fend for themselves, and it's exactly what's going to happen.

Realistic view: Unemployment is actually at an all time low despite centuries of industrialization, automation, etc. AI technology is becoming a commodity at a rapid rate. OpenAI has some nice data moat but their tech is being copied left right and center and much of what they do has been replicated successfully by others; including some open source projects. I don't see OpenAI end up with all the profit here. AI is…

> Realistic view: Unemployment is actually at an all time low despite centuries of industrialization, automation, etc.

As a whole, yes... the problem is something else: quality of employment. Good paying, unionized jobs - the backbone of all Western economies in the "boom age" between WW2 and the fall of the USSR - in farming, mining, manufacturing and industry that employed lots of people in the past have either been lost to technological progress (farming) or gone off to China, India, Taiwan, Vietnam and Thailand - mostly because of massively lower wages, but also (especially in silicon industry) due to massively more permissive environmental protection laws.

What's left for people to make a living is mostly either low-skill and extremely low-pay stuff that reasonably can't be automated (cleaning!), a bit of medium-skill stuff like tradespeople, and high-skill intellectual jobs (STEM). Now that a lot of the high-end jobs is being threatened by AI as well, high-skilled people from there will also be pushed down, intensifying the competition for lower rungs of society even more.

And let's face it: this will be dangerous, particularly as ever more and more of the share of global wealth concentrates in the hands of very few people. Simply from a wealth relation, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Larry Ellison, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates are each richer than actual medieval emperors related to what the common people had. This is not sustainable, and eventually (re)distribution fights will break out.

ETA: Just came in - in the last three years, despite a global pandemic wrecking entire economies, followed by the first land-grab war by an imperialist power ever since WW2 and the resulting economic consequences, the top 5 of the uber rich actually more than doubled their wealth [1], at the expense of everyone else. Clearly, this cannot go on for much longer.

> AI will cause more of that to happen everywhere. But we'll find ways to keep ourselves busy. And more free time means that we can do things that are valuable to us.

As if. Any free time we got gets immediately usurped by the need to take up a second job just to make rent, not to mention that there hasn't been a significant reduction in hours-worked for decades (to the contrary, "expected" aka unpaid overtime has become the norm). Women didn't enter the workforce because of feminism, women entered the workforce because capitalism needed more workers to exploit - with the nasty side effect now becoming evident that young people don't become parents at all or significantly late in their careers, worsening the demographic collapse.

[1] https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/14/economy/oxfam-report-weal...

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