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AI or Ain't: Eliza

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11–20 of 112 posts

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#11

> Clearly, Eliza is not an AI Sadly the author doesn't elaborate on this. I thought nowadays 'AI' is a synonym for 'algorithm', which would fit ELIZA Is there an accepted definition of the word AI?

Seems like the modern definition is something along the lines of an algorithm whose behavior depends on data which was itself machine generated, rather than hand-created by a human like Eliza's rules.

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#12
post #8

> Clearly, Eliza is not an AI Sadly the author doesn't elaborate on this. I thought nowadays 'AI' is a synonym for 'algorithm', which would fit ELIZA Is there an accepted definition of the word AI?

Any algorithm you do not understand.

So, any of my own code I haven't looked at for a few months? :)

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#13
post #2

Here is the pointer to the original Eliza paper https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/365153.365168 Note that Weizenbaum was an AI critic: Weizenbaum's intention was not for Eliza to pass the Turing test, but to show to people that a clearly not intelligent program based on primitive pattern matching can appear to behave intelligently. He failed: His own secretary wanted to be left alone with the software and typed in her p…

Weizenbaum even wrote an entire book, Computer Power and Human Reason: From Judgment To Calculation, on how AI is a crank term for computer science. The basic premise is that humans are not machine so stop using language that treats them as such. Especially that computers can decide what comes next, but only a human can choose what to do.

The book also has one of the best and most succinct descriptions of Turing machines and the theoretical underpinning of computer science that I have ever read. Even if you’re an AI maximalist you should read the third chapter of the book.

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#14

> One of the first computer programs that successfully passed the Turing test was Eliza. Created in 1966 by Joseph Weizenbaum, Eliza skillfully emulated the speech patterns of a psychotherapist in its conversations. Why was the Turing test still relevant after this? Didn't this indicate it was very flawed test? Or it was hard to come up with a better test?

I can find no reference of an actual Turing test being done for Eliza. If you look at the link from the article it is clearly demonstrably failing their (different, and more difficult to interpret, but still fair I thiiiink) runs today as well. Note that people constantly willfully misinterpret what a turing test is.

A turing test means you enter into two conversations. Then you pick which one was with a computer. If people answer wrong 50% of the time, the computer is indistinguishable, hence it passes. Note that it is not "People get wrong whether their single conversation is talking to an AI >50% of the time" and it is definitely not "sometimes people don't realize they're talking to an AI". In particular people constantly write about the latter because it generates clicks.

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#15
> Interestingly, Eliza still outperforms ChatGPT in certain Turing test variations.

I see we have a new entry for the 2024 Lies of Omission award.

The article linked to plainly shows that Eliza only beats ChatpGPT-3.5 and is in the bottom half when ranked against a variety of different system prompts. An excellent ass covering strategy that relies on the reader not checking sources.

An honest author would have actually quoted the article saying:

> GPT-4 achieved a success rate of 41 percent, second only to actual humans.

instead of constructing a deliberately misleading paraphrase.

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#16
post #8

> Clearly, Eliza is not an AI Sadly the author doesn't elaborate on this. I thought nowadays 'AI' is a synonym for 'algorithm', which would fit ELIZA Is there an accepted definition of the word AI?

Any algorithm you do not understand.

Including the one in your head.

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#17
post #3

So the Turing test actually tests not a technology but the level of intelligence of the user. So, we are doomed, it seems.:)

Definitely the main flaw of the Turing test — having two human actors taking part alongside one computer is just introducing two too many variables :)

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#18

> Clearly, Eliza is not an AI Sadly the author doesn't elaborate on this. I thought nowadays 'AI' is a synonym for 'algorithm', which would fit ELIZA Is there an accepted definition of the word AI?

We've been misusing the term ever since observing the ghosts in Pac Man.

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#19
post #3

So the Turing test actually tests not a technology but the level of intelligence of the user. So, we are doomed, it seems.:)

To me, Turing's argument had always been that the attribution of intelligence (or not) doesn't make much sense: rather than being a question of any substance, it merely diffuses into a matter of appearance. However, as things usually are, it had become the holy grail for claiming "intelligence" (which really should be used in this context in quotes only).

Re: AI or Ain't: Eliza

#20

> Interestingly, Eliza still outperforms ChatGPT in certain Turing test variations. I see we have a new entry for the 2024 Lies of Omission award. The article linked to plainly shows that Eliza only beats ChatpGPT-3.5 and is in the bottom half when ranked against a variety of different system prompts. An excellent ass covering strategy that relies on the reader not checking sources. An honest author would have actual…

Hum, note that this was not an argument about or against GPT, but about the "unreasonable" success of a, by all standards, primitive algorithm that manages to get (somewhat) away by crafting the pre- and context of the conversation. By no means, on the other hand, could I read this article and understand it as claiming any superiority over modern applications.

(Nobody with even the crudest understanding of the principles of Eliza could claim this, and the article clearly demonstrates a detailed understanding. Disclaimer: I wrote the JS implementation linked in the article, many years ago.)

Edit: The question rightfully raised – and answered – by Eliza, which is still relevant today in the context of GPT, is: does the appearance of intelligent conversation (necessarily) hint at the presence of a world model in any rudimentary form?

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