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Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

vtdigger.org

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Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#11

>Mojo can quickly sniff out devices like hard drives, flash drives or SD cards — often leading officers straight to the evidence they need to make an arrest. Do nand flash chips and magnetic platters have a distinct smell? lol :) I'm not saying its impossible but really really outlandish

Seems possible.

The linked-to article in turn links to https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indiana-man-training-k9-... dated January 27, 2017 describing how ""I had to pay a chemist to actually find the actual odor," Jordan says. "So it's an odor that's within the actual SD cards, the thumb drives, cell phones.""

This is further detailed at https://www.techrepublic.com/article/electronics-sniffing-do... where "[Dr. Jack] Hubball examined hard drives, thumb drives, SD drives–every type of electronic storage device available. The common denominator? A circuit board."

> He began testing various circuit board components, and about six months later, identified a compound called triphenylphosphine oxide (TPPO)–which covers the circuit boards in all storage devices from large hard drives down to microSD cards to keep them from overheating.

> Another compound, hydroxycyclohexyl phenyl ketone (HPK), was extracted from removable media, such as CDs, DVDs, Blu-Rays, and even floppy disks.

(There are similar accounts about this Connecticut State Police work, like https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/news/can-dogs-detect-cyber... .)

I then tried to figure out how well established this is outside of this one Connecticut example. A Google Scholar search finds a paper from Italy at https://pubblicazioni.unicam.it/bitstream/11581/452666/1/69-... says:

> Dogs trained to sniff electronic equipment are the least known specialization of canine training, which has been implemented after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. International Police Forces begun to train search dogs for the retrieval of electronic equipment such as USB sticks, micro SIM cards, mobile phones, DVDs, CD-ROMs, external hard drives, and memory cards. Specialized dog units in this sector are called Electronic Storage Detection Dogs (ESDD) [24]. The ESDD dog is trained to sniff out the chemical component, triphenylphosphine oxide (TPPO), common to most electronic gadgets and storage devices, as a thermal insulator [25].

[24] is https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/1556-4029.13... from 2017:

> Analyses found several volatile compounds common to SIM and SD cards, as well as USB drives, including 2-propenenitrile, styrene, isophorone, hydroxycyclohexyl phenyl ketone, and 2-furanmethanol, tetrahydro. Results indicated that mass storage devices do have a characteristic odor profile making detection with minimal false alerts feasible for trained canines.

Note: this is a feasibility study only - it does not test if dogs could do it. Nor does it mention the TTPO mentioned in the Italy paper, which is also not mentioned in [25] -- which had nothing to do the the topic!; see

[25] is https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jorge-Rojas-11/publicat...

The Italy paper's [26] is also messed up.

Another lead is https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.1201/97810032... "This chapter introduces the project within the National Police of The Netherlands and focuses on the training method used for “Digital Storage Device Dogs.” Canines have previously shown to be an effective tool in locating obscured digital storage devices in the United States and United Kingdom." I don't have access to the content.

A news blurb about the UK use is at https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8401991 but does not include what substance is detected. It does say the dogs used in the project came out of the Connecticut State Police work.

I would like to know of dogs which have been trained for this task which did not come out of that one program, and/or learn more about the specific tests done under more rigorous circumstances than the ones described in the links I gave.

Still, it does seem feasible that it works as described.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#12
It reminds me of this part of Vernor Vinge's "True Names", https://archive.org/details/truenamesotherda00ving/page/50/m... :

> You're no innocent. Pollack. An honest citizen is content with an ordinary data set like yours there." She pointed across the living room at the forty-by-fifty-centimeter data set. It was the great-grandchild of the old CRT's. With color and twenty-line-per-millimeter resolution, it was the standard of government offices and the more conservative industries. There was a visible layer of dust on Pollack's model. The femcop moved quickly across the living room and poked into the drawers under the picture window. Her maroon business suit revealed a thin and angular figure. "An honest citizen would settle for a standard processor and a few thousand megabytes of fast storage." With some superior intuition she pulled open the center drawer — right under the marijuana plants — to reveal at least five hundred cubic centimeters of optical memory, neatly racked and threaded through to the next drawer which held correspondingly powerful CPUs. Even so, it was nothing compared to the gear he had buried under the house.

Buried would make it harder for the data storage detector dogs to find.

FWIW, that forty-by-fifty-centimeter display has a 64 cm diagonal or 25.2 inches, and the twenty-line-per-millimeter is 508 pixels/inch or slightly above a good Retina display. That sounds pretty decent.

On the other hand, a few gigabytes of fast storage sounds ridiculously small.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#13
post #9
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! I saw a presentation a couple of years back from police dog trainers. Different dogs would specialise in different things - drugs, guns, and amazingly - hard disks! They train them specifically to do so. What blew my mind was the reward was always just a tennis ball. But the dog was soooo happy to get the ball for a short amount of play when it did well.

Drug-sniffing dogs are a myth[1]. They're used as a pretext for illegal searches, not to detect drugs. I suspect this is similar. "Detecting off-gassing" is vague enough to sound like it makes sense, but there's a variety of materials in electronic devices and many of the ones that off-gas (like plastic) are found in millions of other products. 1. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-03/fact-check-are-drug-d...

Well, there's a chance that people had used drugs or smoked before, and the smell might still be present. The article acknowledges this, so it's not entirely a myth. While dogs can make mistakes, it's not definitively incorrect.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#14
> The workload has flooded,” Raymond told VTDigger. “And I think a lot of it is the availability of it online, obviously, but the other part is just, I think platforms are getting much better at controlling their own environment and finding and rooting that stuff out

A lot of that stuff will be much harder to find out if end-to-end encryption stays legal. Is it still worth it? Very possibly, but it's definitely a tradeoff and we shouldn't pretend otherwise. We're trading off real children being actually hurt against unspecified hypothetical harms in the future. Those harms may be much more significant, or they may not, but we shouldn't pretend like it's all roses.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#15

>Mojo can quickly sniff out devices like hard drives, flash drives or SD cards — often leading officers straight to the evidence they need to make an arrest. Do nand flash chips and magnetic platters have a distinct smell? lol :) I'm not saying its impossible but really really outlandish

Nintendo uses bittrex in the plastic for their Switch cartridges to stop kids from swallowing them. Potentially this is more widespread in the SD card industry? (I don’t have any around me to test-lick unfortunately.)

i’ve swallowed several microsd cards and they’ve never tasted of anything but plastic

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#16

> The workload has flooded,” Raymond told VTDigger. “And I think a lot of it is the availability of it online, obviously, but the other part is just, I think platforms are getting much better at controlling their own environment and finding and rooting that stuff out A lot of that stuff will be much harder to find out if end-to-end encryption stays legal. Is it still worth it? Very possibly, but it's definitely a tra…

Even the “end to end encryption” option for iCloud (off by default, mind you) keeps the raw hashes of the unencrypted file content non-e2ee so Apple/USG can see who has which unique files and to where they spread.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#17
post #9
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! I saw a presentation a couple of years back from police dog trainers. Different dogs would specialise in different things - drugs, guns, and amazingly - hard disks! They train them specifically to do so. What blew my mind was the reward was always just a tennis ball. But the dog was soooo happy to get the ball for a short amount of play when it did well.

Drug-sniffing dogs are a myth[1]. They're used as a pretext for illegal searches, not to detect drugs. I suspect this is similar. "Detecting off-gassing" is vague enough to sound like it makes sense, but there's a variety of materials in electronic devices and many of the ones that off-gas (like plastic) are found in millions of other products. 1. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-03/fact-check-are-drug-d...

But in the case of drugs there would be a clear motivation fuelling the alleged myth: to perform illegal searches based on the fake prior of "illegal drugs" having been sniffed by the dogs. That does not work for electronics.

Carrying or distributing certain drugs is illegal, and thus a sniffer dog ostensibly detecting them can be grounds for reasonable suspicion and a search. Being suspected of carrying electronics, on the other hand, is not grounds for a search. That is, of course, unless these dogs are claimed to be trained to sniff out only electronics storing child pornography... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#18

> The workload has flooded,” Raymond told VTDigger. “And I think a lot of it is the availability of it online, obviously, but the other part is just, I think platforms are getting much better at controlling their own environment and finding and rooting that stuff out A lot of that stuff will be much harder to find out if end-to-end encryption stays legal. Is it still worth it? Very possibly, but it's definitely a tra…

You can justify anything with that line of thinking. To anyone paying attention I think it's obvious that AI image generators are going to end this problem. No need to hurt anyone and people can look at all the depraved things they want in the comfort of their homes.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#19

> The workload has flooded,” Raymond told VTDigger. “And I think a lot of it is the availability of it online, obviously, but the other part is just, I think platforms are getting much better at controlling their own environment and finding and rooting that stuff out A lot of that stuff will be much harder to find out if end-to-end encryption stays legal. Is it still worth it? Very possibly, but it's definitely a tra…

This technology protects everyone equally, and more importantly will exist regardless of whether or not you want it to. Any regulatory attempt to kill FDE will only result in the use of more deniable systems by criminals and the mass exploitation of everyone else who relies on the physical security of their computing devices. The tech isn’t magic. We must simply live with the consequences of the reality we exist in, and adapt accordingly in the hunt for those who prey on children.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug-sniffing dogs are a myth[1]. They're used as a pretext for illegal searches, not to detect drugs. I suspect this is similar. "Detecting off-gassing" is vague enough to sound like it makes sense, but there's a variety of materials in electronic devices and many of the ones that off-gas (like plastic) are found in millions of other products. 1. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-03/fact-check-are-drug-d...

Well, there's a chance that people had used drugs or smoked before, and the smell might still be present. The article acknowledges this, so it's not entirely a myth. While dogs can make mistakes, it's not definitively incorrect.

That's not how the dogs are used. They are told to signal, it's not a mistake. It's a tool of intimidation and a performative gesture towards probable cause. Officers without dogs will just claim "smells like weed" or "your eyes are bloodshot" or a million other things.

When actually searching for drugs, they prefer to destroy the vehicle outright, kick in any box speakers, tear off door panels and fabric, cut open seats, pull out spare tires, etc. They never ever use a dog to find the location of drugs in the car, only for the excuse that drugs might be in the car.

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