In German, we use "sie" the German equivalent of "they". Thus, to be polite, you address someone as many people that aren't part of the conversation.
No, it's "Sie", not "sie", and therefore not identical to third person.
Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
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Re: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
#12In German, we use "sie" the German equivalent of "they". Thus, to be polite, you address someone as many people that aren't part of the conversation.
The same is in italian “lei”, except during fascism where they introduced as a formal way to address someone as “voi” which would be the plural of “tu”/“voi”
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
#13In German, we use "sie" the German equivalent of "they". Thus, to be polite, you address someone as many people that aren't part of the conversation.
It makes sense to me: high ranking people often have conversations which are on the behalf (or at least implicate the future) of large groups of people. Thus a plural formal second person, as well as the "royal we".
(note that english aristocrats were often spoken of, not by given [or if they had one, family] name, but by the geographical entity that was the basis of their nobility)
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
#14The page also gets into the plural form being used for the singular over time (as is increasingly the case with English, at least in the US, when you want to avoid specifying a masculine or feminine third-person singular).
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
#15In German, we use "sie" the German equivalent of "they". Thus, to be polite, you address someone as many people that aren't part of the conversation.
Like in Spanish, where the formal second-person pronouns are the same as the third-person pronouns.
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
#16Second person pronouns are so fascinating! Not only is "you" the formal, polite plural form, but calling someone "thou" was also seen as so informal as to be rude (in verb form, to "thou" someone). This has a modern equivalent in the term "tutoyer" in French. https://www.etymonline.com/word/thou An interesting counterpoint is the usage in Japanese of sarcastically polite forms like お前 and 貴様, where you use a pronoun…
The US south still uses ma’am and sir as polite forms of address, but it’s also often used sarcastically (where the ma’am or sir is exaggerated: “Well, yes, MA’am!”)
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
#17Second person pronouns are so fascinating! Not only is "you" the formal, polite plural form, but calling someone "thou" was also seen as so informal as to be rude (in verb form, to "thou" someone). This has a modern equivalent in the term "tutoyer" in French. https://www.etymonline.com/word/thou An interesting counterpoint is the usage in Japanese of sarcastically polite forms like お前 and 貴様, where you use a pronoun…
Interestingly the formality ladder flips at the very top of the hierarchy. Kings and popes must be addressed diffusely with plurals and layered references to official status (“Your Imperial Majesty”), but the Christian God above them is a “thou” in every European language.
(Useless trivia bit… Apparently Emperor Charles V invented the styling of “His Majesty”. Before him, kings and emperors were addressed as highnesses, but he wanted something fancier after being crowned as the Holy Roman Emperor in addition to the kingships he already held.)
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
#18'Thou' is also used in English prayers ('Thy kingdom come, thy will be done'), as a mark of a personal closeness to God.
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
#19In German, we use "sie" the German equivalent of "they". Thus, to be polite, you address someone as many people that aren't part of the conversation.
The same is in italian “lei”, except during fascism where they introduced as a formal way to address someone as “voi” which would be the plural of “tu”/“voi”
Did they not like the feminine connection between "lei" and "Lei"? Or what was the motivation?
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"? (2011)
#20In German, we use "sie" the German equivalent of "they". Thus, to be polite, you address someone as many people that aren't part of the conversation.
No, it's "Sie", not "sie", and therefore not identical to third person.
This is why the British and people in the US do not act the same. The British have their behaviour while us Americans have our behavior. Totally different.