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Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

zachleat.com

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Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#11

Post by rideontime »

bobfunk wrote: post #6

Netlify founder here. The survey is a reflection of what our community responded. Next is the largest framework in usage and is really will liked by it's users. This is clearly visible in the charts of the survey. But for the first time we’ve run this survey, Next decreased in usage year over year (from 47% to 46%). Astro jumped all the way from 11% to 18% with 87% responding they want to use it more. Eleventy droppe…

None of this addresses:

- The misleading title change

- The missing methodology document

- The missing context of absolute scores alongside deltas

All things that have changed since last year's survey.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#12

Post by psanford »

bobfunk wrote: post #6

Netlify founder here. The survey is a reflection of what our community responded. Next is the largest framework in usage and is really will liked by it's users. This is clearly visible in the charts of the survey. But for the first time we’ve run this survey, Next decreased in usage year over year (from 47% to 46%). Astro jumped all the way from 11% to 18% with 87% responding they want to use it more. Eleventy droppe…

It would be nice if the visualization reflected the information you've shared here (including both the absolutes and the amount of change). Then it wouldn't feel misleading and you would not need to write explainer comments on HN.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#13

Post by jcollins1991 »

bobfunk wrote: post #6

Netlify founder here. The survey is a reflection of what our community responded. Next is the largest framework in usage and is really will liked by it's users. This is clearly visible in the charts of the survey. But for the first time we’ve run this survey, Next decreased in usage year over year (from 47% to 46%). Astro jumped all the way from 11% to 18% with 87% responding they want to use it more. Eleventy droppe…

This comes off as a disingenuous response, by typing out a large block of text while neglecting to address any of the individual concerns written in the article. "it’s just data from our survey" is a cop out -- the presentation of data is just as important as the data itself, and the concerns of underlying bias via communication model presented by Zach all seem reasonable to myself.

It's fine to not be an expert in Data Analysis, and if it's true that the company no longer employs someone with those skills, there should be a greater willingness to make adjustments and corrections when problems are raised with publicized analysis.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#14

Post by letmeinhere »

yodon wrote: post #10
letmeinhere wrote: post #4

I remember being astonished at the time of Netlify's rise that someone had the audacity to compete with (a slice of) Amazon S3, and heartened to see what looked like success (usage). Alas, it seems it was a zero interest mirage, and the situation is as it always was, that only the bigs have sustainable business models in web services, especially the more open, generic ones. edit: what's with the downvotes, did I offe…

Vercel, mentioned in the article, seems to be doing quite well.

I wish them well, but the success indicators I've seen from them have been similar; funding rounds and users. They are certainly better positioned, since running hot nodejs servers is a higher revenue proposition than white-labeling blob storage. Question is, does control of the Next.js project constitute a big enough of a moat to keep profitable customers from shifting their hosting to big clouds. The decline of Heroku, for example, does not make me confident.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#15

Post by abtinf »

I really like the chart that he objects to. It is pretty clearly labeled as change and it helps highlight new and potentially interesting things. Would be neat to have a chart like that for lots of things—games on steam, news topics, community events, movies—anywhere you want to quickly grasp what the buzz is.

It doesn’t make next/eleventy look bad (of course they are ranked near the origin given their maturity and adoption). It makes Astro look like something worth investigating for a few minutes.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#16

Post by abtinf »

psanford wrote: post #12
bobfunk wrote: post #6

Netlify founder here. The survey is a reflection of what our community responded. Next is the largest framework in usage and is really will liked by it's users. This is clearly visible in the charts of the survey. But for the first time we’ve run this survey, Next decreased in usage year over year (from 47% to 46%). Astro jumped all the way from 11% to 18% with 87% responding they want to use it more. Eleventy droppe…

It would be nice if the visualization reflected the information you've shared here (including both the absolutes and the amount of change). Then it wouldn't feel misleading and you would not need to write explainer comments on HN.

How would you construct such a chart without it being so busy as to be useless?

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#17

Post by abtinf »

letmeinhere wrote: post #4

I remember being astonished at the time of Netlify's rise that someone had the audacity to compete with (a slice of) Amazon S3, and heartened to see what looked like success (usage). Alas, it seems it was a zero interest mirage, and the situation is as it always was, that only the bigs have sustainable business models in web services, especially the more open, generic ones. edit: what's with the downvotes, did I offe…

Attributing things to the interest rate environment is cliche and uninteresting.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#18

Post by abtinf »

canacrypto wrote: post #7

I was a happy Netlify user for years until they silently took down my app without warning. They blocked my account based on a bogus DMCA claim, the details of which point to a DIFFERENT app with a similar name. Unacceptable behavior from a hosting provider. I'll never use them again.

This seems like human error. How did they handle it when you contacted them?

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#19

Post by throwup238 »

Rapzid wrote: post #9
langsoul-com wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One big thing is that Vercel owns Nextjs and has started to do direct integrations with their platform. Although the features can work without Vercel, it's a second class citizen. The more popular Next is, the less reason people would choose netlify over nextjs as a default option.

Oh and some of the React core team landed at Vercel, and React has been focusing on backend features and partnering with Next/Vercel on early development of said features. So there is frustration that the React project is now perhaps an extension of Vercel's interests, and focused on helping them sell hosting. Never ending drama in VC land.

They also employ Svelte’s creator/maintainer.

Re: Netlify's disingenuous survey-based attack on Next.js (and eleventy, too)

#20

Post by andsoitis »

canacrypto wrote: post #7

I was a happy Netlify user for years until they silently took down my app without warning. They blocked my account based on a bogus DMCA claim, the details of which point to a DIFFERENT app with a similar name. Unacceptable behavior from a hosting provider. I'll never use them again.

Is that other app still up?
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