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Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

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Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#11

Post by RetroTechie »

ssss11 wrote: post #9

It’s just a tool. Like any other, it works for its master. A hammer can be used for good or bad. A knife, a brick, a gun and so on. The problem is humans. We need people who refuse to govern using oppression. Corporate leaders who refuse to prioritise profit over human rights. And developers who have a moral compass of what should and should not be built. But why would this technology be any different to prior new te…

Exactly. It's not a faceless corporation or say, its IT systems doing good or evil. It's the (groups of) people running that corporation & wielding its resources as tools.

That said: what systems you encounter & how they behave, may tell you something about the ethics of the people that put them in place.

As a consequence: if corporation / system / product behaves 'evil', don't direct your anger at those. Instead, direct your anger (or praise!) at the people who created & manage them.

For convenience, "company Y did Z" remains a valid phrase. As long as you're aware that "company Y" is just a placeholder meaning "people working for company Y".

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#12

Post by harimau777 »

necovek wrote: post #8

While the article acknowledges that another way to look at computers/machines is to call them "incorruptible", it sticks to "ruthless" and "oppression" throughout. Instead, I'd use a different, neutral term like someone used for nature here: they are indifferent to our emotions. But that's about right: so are shovels, or meteorites, waterfalls, or a rock falling off a cliff. The main difference is that most of those…

Is a difference perhaps that computers tend to operate even when someone isn't directly using them in a way that most tools do not? Something like a shovel or even a forklift only operates while someone is there using it. Something like a sign or a barricade "operates" all of the time, but an individual can often move it if they need to (e.g. if a "road closed" barricade was poorly placed such that it blocks an unrelated road).

On the other hand, when "the algorithm" messes up there's often no one operating it to talk to and no way for the effected individual to bypass it. In that sense, perhaps computers behave like "entities" in a way that other tools do not?

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#13

Post by vouaobrasil »

lordkrandel wrote: post #7

This article speaks of ruthlessness of the machine for 99% of the time, and then with absolutely no logical reasoning, says at the end that ruthlessnes is inherently oppressive. Because it has the power to be it. In reality, it's the opposite: it's human flawed moral compass that makes a machine a weapon. Until we understand and address this, we will find no peace.

We will never understand and address this as a group as long as the underlying environment is the uncontrolled capitalistic one in which the ideas and technologies that are selected for (evolutionarily) are the ones that net the greatest profit in the shortest-term without regard to long-term consequences. As long as we have this and the ability to abuse the commons, we will never deviate from our abusive and violent use of technology.

I truly believe the only solution is to bring down the current system, which includes the technology that enables it.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#14

Post by vouaobrasil »

ssss11 wrote: post #9

It’s just a tool. Like any other, it works for its master. A hammer can be used for good or bad. A knife, a brick, a gun and so on. The problem is humans. We need people who refuse to govern using oppression. Corporate leaders who refuse to prioritise profit over human rights. And developers who have a moral compass of what should and should not be built. But why would this technology be any different to prior new te…

There is no such thing as a 'just a tool', because we have fundamnetal and basal instincts that cannot be stopped when we operate in a large group. Tools always interact with these basal instincts in predictable ways that cannot be stopped within our modern technological society that has an incredible amount of inertia.

To say that anyhting is 'just a tool' is exceptionally naive and only works in small group settings.

We will never find people who govern fairly or corporate leaders who refuse to priortise profit as long as we maintain and support a system that is conducive to their growth, just as we will never stop the growth of bacteria in a bacteria-rich medium.

Yes, a hammer can be used for good or bad, but it will always inevitably be used for bad in an environment that encourages such uses.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#15

Post by [deleted] »

lordkrandel wrote: post #7

This article speaks of ruthlessness of the machine for 99% of the time, and then with absolutely no logical reasoning, says at the end that ruthlessnes is inherently oppressive. Because it has the power to be it. In reality, it's the opposite: it's human flawed moral compass that makes a machine a weapon. Until we understand and address this, we will find no peace.

[deleted]

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#16

Post by mkii »

haltist wrote: post #2

A few weeks ago I was taking the train but before boarding I noticed two police officers doing their daily patrol and started chatting with them about a crazy lady at the top of the station's stairs. They said they couldn't do anything because it was not their job to take care of the insane to which I couldn't really say anything other than "I guess that sounds about right". The train I was going to take started to d…

Charlie Booker, of Black Mirror fame, said (paraphrasing): it's not technology that sucks -- it's people.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#17

Post by lasereyes136 »

Machines have no intent so they can't be malevolent or virtuous. The oppressive nature of all current machines is due to it's design. A design that was created by human beings. Machines and computers make great servants but horrible masters so if you are in a position to deny a reasonable request because "the computer says no" than a human being is at fault. Blaming a machine is misplaced blame.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#19

Post by azornathogron »

haltist wrote: post #2

A few weeks ago I was taking the train but before boarding I noticed two police officers doing their daily patrol and started chatting with them about a crazy lady at the top of the station's stairs. They said they couldn't do anything because it was not their job to take care of the insane to which I couldn't really say anything other than "I guess that sounds about right". The train I was going to take started to d…

> The conductor saw this and refused to re-open the doors even though the guy seemed to be visibly distraught and maybe even in pain.

I'm not generally a litigious person (at least I hope not), but that sounds like a law suit...

It's one thing to refuse to open the doors just to let a latecomer on board, but it's quite another for a person in a position of authority (and I would argue with a duty of care) to harm someone or put them in danger like this.

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