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Just Your Handyman

plough.com

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Re: Just Your Handyman

#11

Post by JKCalhoun »

sjducb wrote: post #10
pards wrote: post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

You may not be able to do whatever you want, but you can often get a lot further than you think. The first few years after school are the time to shoot for the moon.

Agree, worst is to broadcast that someone can't do a thing. So often kids live up to (or down to) your expectations of them.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#12

Post by have_faith »

pards wrote: post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

There's a little too much focus on the distant future, which is very abstract for everyone to consider, especially children.

Really, you can pursue anything you want to, regardless of the time horizon that you have considered it in.

Walk down the street and see something interesting over the road? then cross over and take a look. Play with the a keyboard in the shop and like the feel? buy a cheap one, get some lessons, pursue it until you no longer want to. You may drop it, you may become a rockstar. You don't need to know you want to be a rockstar though.

Children are already curious, we spend a lot of time trying to get them to formalise their curiosity into concrete plans. Life doesn't need long term planning, to be successful, or be happy.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#13

Post by intelVISA »

everdrive wrote: post #8

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. I've long observed that modern culture and media seem to be really stuck on this idea that kids everywhere are having their dreams held back by evil adults…

Consumption (passive) vs production (active). Only some are blessed to enjoy the latter, and even fewer in a useful niche that aligns with a well-paid career.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#14

Post by Levitz »

have_faith wrote: post #12
pards wrote: post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

There's a little too much focus on the distant future, which is very abstract for everyone to consider, especially children. Really, you can pursue anything you want to, regardless of the time horizon that you have considered it in. Walk down the street and see something interesting over the road? then cross over and take a look. Play with the a keyboard in the shop and like the feel? buy a cheap one, get some lesson…

>There's a little too much focus on the distant future, which is very abstract for everyone to consider, especially children.

Not only is it abstract, it's uncertain. When I was in school around the 90s and early 00s, programming was nowhere near as popular as it is now. What is the job market going to look like in some 20 years? We don't know, and teachers, as part of academia, have even less of a clue.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#15

Post by karaterobot »

Neat article. If you squint, I don't think there is a ton of difference between what most handymen do and what most software engineers do: they both have some generalizable skills, and when they get asked to do something they say 'yes' and then figure out how to do it. I don't think the challenge level of most day-to-day software tasks is any harder than the "where'd that water stain come from" puzzle he described in the article. The difference, of course, is in working conditions and payment.

But even if the AI technologies we're so nervously excited about replace all our jobs, the handymen, plumbers, and electricians of the world will be mostly unaffected. Their work is hard to automate. I hesitate to say we'll change places in terms of economic status—more likely, all the out of work engineers and designers will move into those industries and drive down the prices.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#16

Post by jrm4 »

pards wrote: post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

I mean, best done as a gradient no?

In first grade, you 100% tell them they can be whatever they want, by the end of 12th (or however it works where you are) they should be honestly looking at what sort of things make money to handle that part of life. But also, you know, how to be happy and such.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#17

Post by steveBK123 »

everdrive wrote: post #8

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. I've long observed that modern culture and media seem to be really stuck on this idea that kids everywhere are having their dreams held back by evil adults…

Well said.

Educators and parents don't do a great job of saying "if you want to be A, then you should work on your V skills" or "while you may be passionate about C, it is not a career.. have you considered D,E,F?".

And also for those going off to college it would be useful to have the hard conversation early "while it may be fun to live in G HCOL city for 4 years, if you want to make a life there, you are going to need a HCOL paying job like H,I,J.. so maybe don't pursue low ROI degree K".

I definitely interacted with a lot of younger millenials/GenZ in my career who were constantly changing jobs laterally because nothing was a "good fit". So they spent the first 5 years of their career churning water instead of doubling their salary. This is the kind of thing that sets a person back for life.

To me it's like "wow yeah you don't find working on a CRUD app / BI analytics / retail website to be the most life affirming thing in the world?" Guess what, as Mad Men said.. "that's what the money is for". People can have hobbies!

Re: Just Your Handyman

#18

Post by atticora »

karaterobot wrote: post #15

Neat article. If you squint, I don't think there is a ton of difference between what most handymen do and what most software engineers do: they both have some generalizable skills, and when they get asked to do something they say 'yes' and then figure out how to do it. I don't think the challenge level of most day-to-day software tasks is any harder than the "where'd that water stain come from" puzzle he described in…

As a coder when I want to figure something out I can just try it an obnoxious number of times and ways within minutes, with almost no marginal cost. Even on the job. When a handyman wants to learn plumbing he has to do things like knock holes in the ceiling just to have a look. If a handyman gets it right only as often as I do in my REPL, he'll fail fast. Atoms are so much tougher than bits.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#19

Post by neverartful »

karaterobot wrote: post #15

Neat article. If you squint, I don't think there is a ton of difference between what most handymen do and what most software engineers do: they both have some generalizable skills, and when they get asked to do something they say 'yes' and then figure out how to do it. I don't think the challenge level of most day-to-day software tasks is any harder than the "where'd that water stain come from" puzzle he described in…

I mostly agree with you. I've been a full-time software engineer for the past 28 years and a part-time handyman for the past 5 months. One of the biggest differences that you don't mention is the use of your body. Software engineering is purely intellectual -- often to the detriment of your body (or mine, anyways) since it's often the case where I sit at the keyboard for hours on end, day after day. As a handyman, your body necessarily is a key part of the work you do. Lifting tools, materials, carrying them, getting into weird positions to access the problem area (under bathroom sink for example). The other aspect is the physical nature of the work. The work is tangible. You can take a photo of the thing that needs to be fixed before the repair/construction and then another at the end and compare the before/after photos. Even if you don't care about the photos, you can still see the tangible, physical end-result of your work. With software engineering, at best it's usually just a status update on a Jira ticket.

Regarding AI technologies, I agree that it's extremely unlikely that AI will take over the work. It's possible that may help in some diagnostic cases. I strongly disagree with "all the out of work engineers and designers will move into those industries". Why? Many (perhaps most even) software engineers that I've worked with are too lazy or too proud to do handyman type work. Some of the handyman work can be physically quite taxing and some of it can be quite humbling. Examples of taxing work - when you're doing a gate rebuild/repair in 107 degree temperature in direct sun. Example of humbling work - opening up p-traps under sinks and having some of the smelly, dirty water splash on you.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#20

Post by lostphilosopher »

neverartful wrote: post #19
karaterobot wrote: post #15

Neat article. If you squint, I don't think there is a ton of difference between what most handymen do and what most software engineers do: they both have some generalizable skills, and when they get asked to do something they say 'yes' and then figure out how to do it. I don't think the challenge level of most day-to-day software tasks is any harder than the "where'd that water stain come from" puzzle he described in…

I mostly agree with you. I've been a full-time software engineer for the past 28 years and a part-time handyman for the past 5 months. One of the biggest differences that you don't mention is the use of your body. Software engineering is purely intellectual -- often to the detriment of your body (or mine, anyways) since it's often the case where I sit at the keyboard for hours on end, day after day. As a handyman, yo…

I’m less concerned about the supply of handymen inflating and more concerned about demand falling. If AI really does replace a huge portion of the people with the money to hire handymen and plumbers and the property to need them where do they get the work from? More people will DIY out of necessity even if the results are worse because they won’t have another option and fewer people will have the property to maintain in the first place.
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