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President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

whitehouse.gov

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Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#11

Post by mulderc »

dragontamer wrote: post #8
AcerbicZero wrote: post #5

With the amount of semi-trucks I see on the highway crisscrossing this country constantly it seems it might be better to just focus on getting our existing freight traffic off the roads before we worry about passenger traffic. *I'm not talking about last mile deliveries, or suggesting the entire trucking industry can be magically turned into railroad freight.

US Freight Rail is among the most utilized and most efficient in the world. Freight Rail is actually the reason why our passenger rail sucks so much, because in USA, Freight has priority over passengers. So a lot of our passenger rails sit waiting for the freight-trains to pass.

It is the other way around. Passenger rail has priority but that law is ignored by freight operators.

“For over 50 years, freight railroads have been required by law to provide Amtrak with “preference” to run passenger trains ahead of freight trains. However, many freight railroads ignore the law because it is extremely difficult for Amtrak to enforce it, and as a result, people and the American economy suffer.” https://www.amtrak.com/on-time-performance#:~:text=For%20ove....

Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#12

Post by thechao »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #5

With the amount of semi-trucks I see on the highway crisscrossing this country constantly it seems it might be better to just focus on getting our existing freight traffic off the roads before we worry about passenger traffic. *I'm not talking about last mile deliveries, or suggesting the entire trucking industry can be magically turned into railroad freight.

My suspicion is that we heavily subsidize road-freight traffic by not properly taxing very heavy vehicles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

Reasonably loaded freight trucks do about 10000x as much damage to roads, per mile. Freight trucks also run a lot further per day than regular vehicles. I know a lot of roads never see any freight haulage at all, but I suspect that major transits (interstate highways) are essentially a way to get the US public to pay for freight haulage jobs. I'd guess that last mile is far less damaging, as the box trucks weigh far less.

Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#13

Post by dubcanada »

dragontamer wrote: post #8
AcerbicZero wrote: post #5

With the amount of semi-trucks I see on the highway crisscrossing this country constantly it seems it might be better to just focus on getting our existing freight traffic off the roads before we worry about passenger traffic. *I'm not talking about last mile deliveries, or suggesting the entire trucking industry can be magically turned into railroad freight.

US Freight Rail is among the most utilized and most efficient in the world. Freight Rail is actually the reason why our passenger rail sucks so much, because in USA, Freight has priority over passengers. So a lot of our passenger rails sit waiting for the freight-trains to pass.

> Freight Rail is actually the reason why our passenger rail sucks so much, because in USA, Freight has priority over passengers. So a lot of our passenger rails sit waiting for the freight-trains to pass.

Do you have any sources for this? This doesn't sound correct to me. A train is a queue, there is no priority in regards to crossings that I know of.

Edit: I stand corrected, Amtrak report does suggest that freight might have a priority. That report is honestly shocking.

Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#14

Post by [deleted] »

mariojv wrote: post #2

I wish the map were higher definition. I see a line from San Antonio (or Austin?) to El Paso, my most traveled route, but nothing in the text description about it. There are also some other lines linking the Texas Triangle which would be great! Regardless, I hope this plan sees fruition in a reasonable timeframe. Further investments in transit within cities themselves would be welcome too, given a lot of folks may be…

[deleted]

Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#15

Post by davexunit »

Pleasantly surprised by this. Finally some real investment in high speed rail. The LA to Las Vegas high speed line seems like an obvious mistake, though. Definitely excited about the northeast corridor improvements. They say the Downeaster line is going to be improved, but no details. I wish the Downeaster went further up the coast of Maine.

edit: Looks like the Downeaster could get extended to Rockland. Neat! https://www.wabi.tv/2023/12/08/downeaster-could-extend-furth...

Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#16

Post by mulderc »

j0hnyl wrote: post #4

The US would really benefit from a high speed rail network even if it connects just a few hubs imo.

Just getting freight railroad operators to follow existing law that gives passenger trains priority would improve things significantly. We could also upgrade existing track and trains to get top speeds of 125 and we would see large benefits for many regions.

Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#17

Post by Kon-Peki »

orionblastar wrote: post #3

What about Chicago to Saint Louis?

What about it? That line started running at 110mph a few months ago.

The Chicago region only got about 15% of what it asked for, and notably they didn't include funding for a few smaller projects that would have combined to shave 20-30 minutes off of almost half of all long-distance Amtrak trains.

They literally refused to fund a project to double-track a 1-mile section of track on the south side of Chicago (on a 4-track wide right of way) that causes delays to every single Amtrak route between Chicago and the east coast.

There's a 13(?) mile long section of single track in Michigan (that Amtrak owns!), and is the largest source of delay for all Chicago-Detroit trains. And they refused add a second track, which the right of way already has room for.

Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#18

Post by dragontamer »

mulderc wrote: post #11
dragontamer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Freight Rail is among the most utilized and most efficient in the world. Freight Rail is actually the reason why our passenger rail sucks so much, because in USA, Freight has priority over passengers. So a lot of our passenger rails sit waiting for the freight-trains to pass.

It is the other way around. Passenger rail has priority but that law is ignored by freight operators. “For over 50 years, freight railroads have been required by law to provide Amtrak with “preference” to run passenger trains ahead of freight trains. However, many freight railroads ignore the law because it is extremely difficult for Amtrak to enforce it, and as a result, people and the American economy suffer.” http…

Oh wow. That's incredible. So legally Passenger Rail has priority, but in practice the freight-corporations bully the passenger lines.

Its a difficult situation, because nominally, the freight-rail operators also own those raillines. So a free-market solution is likely not possible. This is just something that needs to be enforced from the top-down.

Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#19

Post by dekhn »

I've tried to figure out the logisitics of having Caltrain and Cal HSR sharing two tracks in the SF Bay Peninsula corridor and I simply can't figure it out. There's no way you can get the Cal HSR at speed through the corridor with bidirectional Caltrain non-high-speed traffic, and there's no room to build more track. So the HSR would have to slow down to Caltrain speeds or they would have to modify the Caltrain schedule (this is all speculation; I haven't seen any plans to address this, other than the ongoing grade separation and electrification).

Combined with the route (which takes a big detour, increasing the ride between the termini), it seems like we're going to pay a lot of money to have something that can sort of get you between northern LA and southern San Jose in a not-very-short amount of time. Hard to see the attraction.

Re: President Biden Announces Billions to Deliver World-Class High-Speed Rail

#20

Post by potatochup »

davexunit wrote: post #15

Pleasantly surprised by this. Finally some real investment in high speed rail. The LA to Las Vegas high speed line seems like an obvious mistake, though. Definitely excited about the northeast corridor improvements. They say the Downeaster line is going to be improved, but no details. I wish the Downeaster went further up the coast of Maine. edit: Looks like the Downeaster could get extended to Rockland. Neat! https:…

> The LA to Las Vegas high speed line seems like an obvious mistake, though

I'm curious as to why you think this? LAVegas on I15 gets supremely busy during the weekends. I dunno how much regular commuter traffic there would be during weekdays, but it seems like it would see high demand, especially if its a) faster than driving and b) you can drink on the train. My main issue with it is that it doesn't actually get very far into LA.

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