What agreements have been made with the employer? Hire an intellectual property lawyer to read and discuss the implications of any written contracts and agreements made with the employer.
Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
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Re: Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
#12What agreements have been made with the employer? Hire an intellectual property lawyer to read and discuss the implications of any written contracts and agreements made with the employer.
its not about legalities.
Re: Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
#13well it is certainly illegal ... ethics are fudged... using the source code or work derived from the code is certainly unethical (i think) because your code was paid by the employer..
but the actual idea? well where would you guys classify this? i think the actual idea unless protected by a patent is open.. also a lot of companies put a no-compete clause forbidding working for another company in the same domain ... (even though in some countries thats against the law)
Re: Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
#14well it is certainly illegal ... ethics are fudged... using the source code or work derived from the code is certainly unethical (i think) because your code was paid by the employer.. but the actual idea? well where would you guys classify this? i think the actual idea unless protected by a patent is open.. also a lot of companies put a no-compete clause forbidding working for another company in the same domain ... (…
regardign the "idea being protected by a patent", i meant if worded carefully with the necessary legal mumbo jumbo... (eg in australia, software patents are usually titled - a way using a COMPUTER to do steps explained in algorithm X)
Re: Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are totally wrong. In a contracting situation, the CONTRACTOR owns all the code he or she produces unless the contract specifically states otherwise.
The contract almost always states otherwise though. Unless maybe you're working in an area where the companies doesn't care about their IP or are just simply ignorant.
I've worked on over 20 software contracts and never once did the contract contain a clause that forced me to assign copyright agreement to the person paying for the software. Note that this only applies to contractors, not exempt employees.
http://www.developerdotstar.com/mag/articles/daniels_softwar...
Re: Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
#16OK, I was contracting in my previous life so I've seen these issues pop up many times before. Here's few words. A) is illegal. You have no ownership of ANY code or IP that you work on at the company that employs you. That's what they're paying you for, after all. B) is also illegal. Unless the company in question has open sourced their code and allows anyone to use it under some kind of a BSD-like license, you have a…
You are totally wrong. In a contracting situation, the CONTRACTOR owns all the code he or she produces unless the contract specifically states otherwise.
Where exactly am I wrong? Point the sentence. Of course you have to assign them IP! That's what they're paying you for! Ever contracted for the government?! Look at their 20 page assignment agreement.
http://www.developerdotstar.com/mag/articles/daniels_softwar...
Re: Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are totally wrong. In a contracting situation, the CONTRACTOR owns all the code he or she produces unless the contract specifically states otherwise.
The contract almost always states otherwise though. Unless maybe you're working in an area where the companies doesn't care about their IP or are just simply ignorant.
I can never really agree to such a clause, though. In the most extreme case it would mean I could never take on another contract, because I already used up all my programming tricks in the first one. For example I might have employed the MVC pattern, will I be able to ever use it again?
Re: Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are totally wrong. In a contracting situation, the CONTRACTOR owns all the code he or she produces unless the contract specifically states otherwise.
Where exactly am I wrong? Point the sentence. Of course you have to assign them IP! That's what they're paying you for! Ever contracted for the government?! Look at their 20 page assignment agreement. http://www.developerdotstar.com/mag/articles/daniels_softwar...
You are right in the case of a full time employee. You are wrong in the general case of contract software engineering. Most software development contracts DO NOT have a 20 page assignment agreement that assigns copyright to the person/company paying for the work. It sounds counterintuitive and false, but that really is the case. You, the contractor, own the IP unless you sign your rights away. And even if you do, it probably won't hold up in court.
In regards to the government, I admit I don't know, I've never contracted for the government.
Also, I find it strange that the link you provided argues directly against your position.
Re: Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
The contract almost always states otherwise though. Unless maybe you're working in an area where the companies doesn't care about their IP or are just simply ignorant.
I've worked on over 20 software contracts and never once did the contract contain a clause that forced me to assign copyright agreement to the person paying for the software. Note that this only applies to contractors, not exempt employees. http://www.developerdotstar.com/mag/articles/daniels_softwar...
Enterprise software? That surprises me based on my limited experiences, but all the better for you I imagine you own a sizable amount of useful code by now.
Great article btw, thanks.
Re: Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference?
#20if the code is a crystallisation of their business idea then using it again is equivalent to re-using their business idea and i think that is highly un-ethical. if you are talking about reusing some CSS templates and changing the colors - meh.
personally, i err on the side of caution and never take work with me from one company to another - often i can condense 6 months of learn-by-doing into a couple of weeks of do-over since it is the overall direction and knowing what is definitely wrong that saves time.
/note: i'm a scientist not a programmer but i think the same situations apply