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Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

media.ccc.de

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Re: Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

#11
post #2

I recognized the presenter's name - Natalie Silvanovich - and sure enough, she's a member of Project Zero, and I've read posts by her before. I guess Tamagochis were her gateway drug into reversing!

Here is her self-image: https://natashenka.ca/about/

Tamigotchya :)

Re: Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

#12

Looks like she did finally get her code dump, via voltage glitching: https://natashenka.ca/tamagotchi-friends-code-dump/#more-281

Here's a link to some slides I found online. https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2013/Fahrplan/system... I've been hacking on an Apple ][ over the past few weeks. It runs on a 6502 processor. It's kind of mind-blowing to know that the thing used to run an entire PC was later used for pocket toys like the Tamagotchi a handful of years later. The speed at which technology has improved will never cease to amaze me.

fun fact, that SIM card in your phone has the same CPU :)

Re: Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a link to some slides I found online. https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2013/Fahrplan/system... I've been hacking on an Apple ][ over the past few weeks. It runs on a 6502 processor. It's kind of mind-blowing to know that the thing used to run an entire PC was later used for pocket toys like the Tamagotchi a handful of years later. The speed at which technology has improved will never cease to amaze me.

fun fact, that SIM card in your phone has the same CPU :)

I did some Googling and I can't find anything on this, are you sure? Did you mean "it's roughly as capable as a 6502"?

Re: Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fun fact, that SIM card in your phone has the same CPU :)

I did some Googling and I can't find anything on this, are you sure? Did you mean "it's roughly as capable as a 6502"?

Some 'window-shopping' at a smart card retailer shows a mixture of Atmel, ARM and unspecified RISC processors in use. That would suggest to me that they not only have different instruction sets, but are much more capable than the 6502. I certainly wouldn't choose a 6502 on which to run my Java applets!

Re: Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

#16
post #2

I recognized the presenter's name - Natalie Silvanovich - and sure enough, she's a member of Project Zero, and I've read posts by her before. I guess Tamagochis were her gateway drug into reversing!

Reversing? Hmm whats that

Re: Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

#17
post #9

I wonder how small a 6502 or Z80 CPU would be if fabbed on 3nm TSM processes node. Would it be visible with the naked eye?

Does anyone know what the most advanced node a 6502 or Z80 CPU (or 8051 micro) has actually been fabbed on?

Z8400 series (still manufactured) are 1500nm process.

Re: Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

#18
post #17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know what the most advanced node a 6502 or Z80 CPU (or 8051 micro) has actually been fabbed on?

Z8400 series (still manufactured) are 1500nm process.

Sure but 8051 is probably the most widely manufactured processor in human history (along their clones and derivatives) and they were originally fabbed using a 3.5 µm (3500 nm) NMOS process (IIRC). What I'd like to know is what the most advanced process/node has been used to manufacture a production 6502, Z80, or 8051 (or other old standard). Has anyone ever fabbed any of the those CPUs/MCUs at 130 nm or better?

Though, I will say that I'm amazed that anyone is still mass producing digital products on a 6" (if not smaller) wafer using a node that was invented in the mid 1970s (300 mm wafers are the current standard with the next proposed step being 450 mm). I mention digital because a lot of analog gear (and I think some MEMS) is fabbed using what most of us would consider ancient process nodes.

Re: Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

#19
Nice talk! Travis Goodspeed, who she mentions helped her decapping the chip, has some very interesting reverse engineering talks, e.g. a tear-down of a commercial glucose monitor:

https://filestore.fortinet.com/fortiguard/research/glucose-b...

Re: Many Tamagotchis were harmed in the making of this presentation (2012) [video]

#20

I wonder how small a 6502 or Z80 CPU would be if fabbed on 3nm TSM processes node. Would it be visible with the naked eye?

Possibly 180nm, the 6502 was used as a teaching example for the Open Source EDA toolchains https://www.avrfreaks.net/s/topic/a5C3l000000BoJ5EAK/t390647

The 8051 is so commonly embedded deep in other ICs that it has very likely been produced on much smaller nodes.

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