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Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

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Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#11

Post by aredox »

spacebacon wrote: post #6

Ingo Swann is known for a remote viewing session where he was asked to describe the contents of a sealed envelope placed inside a safe. This experiment took place at the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) during the early stages of the remote viewing program. Swann accurately described the contents of the envelope within the safe, reporting drawings of mountains, a horse, and an individual riding the horse. To the sur…

I guess the fact there isn't a US Army nor Navy nor CIA nor FBI "clairvoyant" corp, or that the US struggled to find Ben Laden for a decade, is proof enough that either this is all bullsh*t, or that it was propaganda to lead the Russians on a wild goose chase (like they seem to do today with reactionless engines - and the Chinese seem to have bitten, hook and sinker).

Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#12

Post by aredox »

spacebacon wrote: post #7
spacebacon wrote: post #6

Ingo Swann is known for a remote viewing session where he was asked to describe the contents of a sealed envelope placed inside a safe. This experiment took place at the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) during the early stages of the remote viewing program. Swann accurately described the contents of the envelope within the safe, reporting drawings of mountains, a horse, and an individual riding the horse. To the sur…

Swann also viewed rings around Jupiter as well as a thin atmosphere on Mercury. Both findings were later confirmed by NASA.

"Bull indeed. He described them like this: "Maybe the stripes are like bands of crystals, maybe like rings of Saturn, though not far out like that. Very close within the atmosphere."

As it happens, the rings of Jupiter are very far out from the planet.

His description was nothing but rank generalities and bet hedging. Ice crystals in Jupiter's atmosphere were already predicted to be there, and him describing them as "bands of crystals, maybe like rings of Saturn" is bet-hedging at its worst. He made an educated guess that ice crystals appear in bands, and gave a carefully crafted sentence that could be interpreted as "right" regardless of whether actual rings were found. Rings found? Then pay attention to the "...like rings of Saturn..." part. No rings found? Then pay attention to the "...Very close within the atmosphere..." part. Regardless of which way it goes, try to convince people your meaningless declaration means something after the fact.

Ingo Swann is the worst sort of fraud."

https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/hvryx/need_help_de...

Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#13

Post by spacebacon »

aredox wrote: post #11
spacebacon wrote: post #6

Ingo Swann is known for a remote viewing session where he was asked to describe the contents of a sealed envelope placed inside a safe. This experiment took place at the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) during the early stages of the remote viewing program. Swann accurately described the contents of the envelope within the safe, reporting drawings of mountains, a horse, and an individual riding the horse. To the sur…

I guess the fact there isn't a US Army nor Navy nor CIA nor FBI "clairvoyant" corp, or that the US struggled to find Ben Laden for a decade, is proof enough that either this is all bullsh*t, or that it was propaganda to lead the Russians on a wild goose chase (like they seem to do today with reactionless engines - and the Chinese seem to have bitten, hook and sinker).

Definitely a valid point. Like anything on our planet everything has a counter.

Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#14

Post by observationist »

spacebacon wrote: post #4
Bo0kerDeWitt wrote: post #3

David Grusch (UAP whistleblower) seemed to believe this was a legitimate thing on his recent appearance on Joe Rogan. As interested as I am in the UAP phenomena, I just can't seriously believe this is real.

Do a deep dive into Ingo Swann and form a more informed opinion.

Ingo Swann was a charlatan and fraud. Human credulity is no substitute for science.

Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#15

Post by aredox »

spacebacon wrote: post #6

Ingo Swann is known for a remote viewing session where he was asked to describe the contents of a sealed envelope placed inside a safe. This experiment took place at the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) during the early stages of the remote viewing program. Swann accurately described the contents of the envelope within the safe, reporting drawings of mountains, a horse, and an individual riding the horse. To the sur…

This is not what happened. See comments:

https://www.reddit.com/r/consciousness/comments/181s71r/the_...

Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#16

Post by getpost »

I first read about this in the 2007 book, Extraordinary Knowing: Science, Skepticism, and the Inexplicable Powers of the Human Mind by Elizabeth Mayer. I don't remember what she says about Swann, but the book made a big impression on me at the time, and I bought copies for a couple friends.

https://www.amazon.com/Extraordinary-Knowing-Science-Skeptic...

Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#17

Post by spacebacon »

aredox wrote: post #15
spacebacon wrote: post #6

Ingo Swann is known for a remote viewing session where he was asked to describe the contents of a sealed envelope placed inside a safe. This experiment took place at the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) during the early stages of the remote viewing program. Swann accurately described the contents of the envelope within the safe, reporting drawings of mountains, a horse, and an individual riding the horse. To the sur…

This is not what happened. See comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/consciousness/comments/181s71r/the_...

You are suggesting I read more subjective comments to disprove my own subjective comment?

Which comment specifically should I read to have a better informed view of the particular study I recalled here?

I closed the book on remote viewing decades ago as it’s not something I can personally replicate but will still entertain the conversation and argue for either side until it is conclusive.

Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#18

Post by observationist »

tetris11 wrote: post #2

I quite like that they were willing to try, even if it was a waste of resources. Sometimes you just have to do experiments, even if the outcome isn't wholly known.

To a point - some questions aren't worth testing. Questions like "What if I can eat uranium?" or "What happens if I fill my car's gas tank with water" are costly and avoidable.

Using basic reasoning skills instead of credulous consideration of magical powers seems a reasonable threshold for discarding certain research. I don't need to spend billions of dollars trying to figure out how to cut people in half and put them back together like a magician, even if thousands or even billions of people have "witnessed" such an event.

Science doesn't allow for a rational mechanism that would enable psychic powers like telepathy, seeing the future, and remote viewing without augmenting the brain with a technological interface and machines that captured and transmitted the information. There's simply no room for reasonable experimentation around these types of claims, unless it's psychological in nature; things which are known and provable limit any possible mechanism by which psychic powers can operate.

If you wanted to posit some sort of technological mechanism, then you're getting into simulations, aliens, secret government implants, or other theories that lack plausibility as well.

We'll likely have common BCI augmentations within the next century. Networked human brains will exhibit psychic-like abilities and the potential is amazing, but until that happens, claims about such things are fraudulent, deceptive, or deluded.

Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#19

Post by electrondood »

tetris11 wrote: post #2

I quite like that they were willing to try, even if it was a waste of resources. Sometimes you just have to do experiments, even if the outcome isn't wholly known.

This is the essence of skepticism: not a knee-jerk, arrogant "NO," but an open-minded "well, let's see."

Re: Clairvoyant Remote Viewing: The US Sponsored Psychic Spying

#20

Post by electrondood »

observationist wrote: post #18
tetris11 wrote: post #2

I quite like that they were willing to try, even if it was a waste of resources. Sometimes you just have to do experiments, even if the outcome isn't wholly known.

To a point - some questions aren't worth testing. Questions like "What if I can eat uranium?" or "What happens if I fill my car's gas tank with water" are costly and avoidable. Using basic reasoning skills instead of credulous consideration of magical powers seems a reasonable threshold for discarding certain research. I don't need to spend billions of dollars trying to figure out how to cut people in half and put th…

> Science doesn't allow for a rational mechanism that would enable psychic powers like telepathy

Yet. Keep in mind that everyone thought getting sick was magic until germs were discovered, we used to be completely unaware of electromagnetism, etc. etc.

> If you wanted to posit some sort of technological mechanism, then you're getting into simulations, aliens, secret government implants, or other theories that lack plausibility as well.

This isn't a statement made in good faith, you're pre-poisoning the well with a slippery slope.

There appears to be ample scientific evidence that at least some future events already exist. Check out _Time Loops_ by Eric Wargo for a good summary.

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