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The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

phys.org

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Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#11

Post by stareatgoats »

csa wrote: post #9
stareatgoats wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title had to be shortened - 'new' was the best I could think of. But it can be justified I think, both in relation to the gist of the article and the original title. If this was well established knowledge that that is new to me at least, albeit not really surprising, admittedly. (tfa? I couldn't get a hit on that acronym anywhere)

> (tfa? I couldn't get a hit on that acronym anywhere) “the fucking article” I recommend using urban dictionary if a generic search doesn’t yield a result that makes any sense.

ah, thanks. Did try UD but it didn't show up for me on the first nor second page.

edit: seems I missed the top entry!

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#12

Post by Eumenes »

> "For more than 95% of our evolutionary history we lived as hunter-gatherers. Therefore, contemporary hunter-gatherer societies can offer clues as to whether there are certain child-rearing systems to which infants, and their mothers, may be psychologically adapted,"

You can cherry pick anything that fits a narrative. This narrative advocates for more funding for state sponsored daycare, which does not resemble anything close to the 'caregiving' that was going on in hunter-gatherer communities.

I bet 95% of our evolutionary history also involved bashing in skulls over arguments regarding food or resources, mass rape, living in caves, and not wearing clothes. Should we return to that too? The difference between those things and the example given in the article? Fortune 500 companies don't get more workers. Big corporations can pass the buck to taxpayers to fund childcare. Naïve activists will promote this in the vein of 'womens rights' as if dumping your kid at a state sponsored daycare is empowering or something.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#13

Post by micromacrofoot »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

> When considering the implications for Western countries, the authors highlight that the provision of affordable high-quality childcare support, which goes beyond effective supervision, should be prioritized. > Ratios of caregivers to children were greater than five-to-one in the observed hunter-gatherer groups, whereas in UK nurseries each adult is responsible for numerous children. There is now way you can pay for…

Why does it have to be all women?

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#14

Post by hasoleju »

> childcare needs to give parents an actual break.

In my experience caring for your small children is really demanding work. On the one hand you need to be focused on the situation in order to protect the children and on the other hand there is not much going on for entertaining yourself.

Creative or focused deep work where you get a positive feeling of accomplishment also counts as a break from childcare for me. So a break does not necessarily mean not working. But I believe there are a lot of demanding jobs that are not a break from childcare.

The other aspect I can relate to is the fact that in hunter-gatherer communities many different caregivers support each other. Every summer we travel in the mountains with 3-4 other families and their kids. Last year there where 12 kids under the age of 8. Sounds very stressful but actually it was really smooth. Having multiple parents available all the time allowed everyone to take a real break once in a while. And also the children enjoyed having multiple different adults they could interact with apart from their parents.

So I really think this concept works, but only if you all live under the same roof. Which in practice is only possible during holidays.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#15

Post by csa »

stareatgoats wrote: post #11
csa wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (tfa? I couldn't get a hit on that acronym anywhere) “the fucking article” I recommend using urban dictionary if a generic search doesn’t yield a result that makes any sense.

ah, thanks. Did try UD but it didn't show up for me on the first nor second page. edit: seems I missed the top entry!

Interesting. First result for me.

I wonder if they adjust search results by geo.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#16

Post by manmal »

hasoleju wrote: post #14

> childcare needs to give parents an actual break. In my experience caring for your small children is really demanding work. On the one hand you need to be focused on the situation in order to protect the children and on the other hand there is not much going on for entertaining yourself. Creative or focused deep work where you get a positive feeling of accomplishment also counts as a break from childcare for me. So…

In our Montessori school, parents do pick up other kids occasionally, and the kids would just stay with the family for the afternoon. Ideally, kids take turns so sometimes parents get an afternoon off.

Another thing that sometimes works (lots of preconditions) - living in walking distance of grandparents or siblings, and let the kids visit family frequently.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#17

Post by Podgajski »

Eumenes wrote: post #12

> "For more than 95% of our evolutionary history we lived as hunter-gatherers. Therefore, contemporary hunter-gatherer societies can offer clues as to whether there are certain child-rearing systems to which infants, and their mothers, may be psychologically adapted," You can cherry pick anything that fits a narrative. This narrative advocates for more funding for state sponsored daycare, which does not resemble anyt…

It could also be used to do away with the capitalist system for more anarchistic one and instead rely on community rather than on the state.

In any case it all points to the fact that the way our society is set up, is creating a lack of well-being among humanity.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#19

Post by morsch »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

> When considering the implications for Western countries, the authors highlight that the provision of affordable high-quality childcare support, which goes beyond effective supervision, should be prioritized. > Ratios of caregivers to children were greater than five-to-one in the observed hunter-gatherer groups, whereas in UK nurseries each adult is responsible for numerous children. There is now way you can pay for…

>> Ratios of caregivers to children were greater than five-to-one in the observed hunter-gatherer groups, whereas in UK nurseries each adult is responsible for numerous children.

> There is now way you can pay for these kind of ratios.

As it turns out, 5:1 is the legal limit for pre-k (age https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betreuungsschl%C3%BCssel

The government seemingly pays about 40 billion EUR per year for pre-school childcare; participating parents, depending on their income, pay up to around 250 EUR a month (+50-100 EUR a month for meals). All of these figures are very rough, but should be in the right ballpark.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#20

Post by stareatgoats »

We can only move forward, not backward. The hunter-gatherer existence is often endowed with some notion of pristine, peaceful existence in harmony with nature, which is likely far from the actual truth. That said, I for one find many aspects (but not all!) of the present situation unsatisfactory, where the needs of macroeconomy and national priorities supersedes many of our most basic needs as humans.

This article could indicate how one of those needs are currently neglected, and point to the need for more grownups to spend more time with their children (and other children) than currently is possible.

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