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Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

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Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#11

Post by Cushman »

mjn wrote: post #8
Cushman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think is stopping demos from taking off as a serious commercial art form? Just culture, or something more fundamental?

Interactive demo-like things have been taking off lately, but mostly under the label "games" (which sells more), even in the case where the game-ness is pretty minimal. Not sure if they're explicitly inspired by the demoscene or not, but interactive-procedural-graphics-and-sound stuff like Proteus feels very much like a demoscene production to me ( http://www.visitproteus.com/ ). Main difference imo is more focus on…

But strictly demos are non-interactive, right? That's the question I have: Is there a market for a pure-digital multimedia art form beside games?

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#12

Post by forza »

rollypolly wrote: post #9
mjn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interactive demo-like things have been taking off lately, but mostly under the label "games" (which sells more), even in the case where the game-ness is pretty minimal. Not sure if they're explicitly inspired by the demoscene or not, but interactive-procedural-graphics-and-sound stuff like Proteus feels very much like a demoscene production to me ( http://www.visitproteus.com/ ). Main difference imo is more focus on…

Indeed, many people went from the demoscene to the game industry. Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remedy_Entertainment

..and a lot of other northen european games companies.

http://www.4players.de/4sceners.php/dispbericht/-/5157/0/ind...

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#13

Post by DrJokepu »

Cushman wrote: post #7
DrJokepu wrote: post #2

I used to be the coder of a small demoscene team in the early 2000's. I never had as much fun writing computer programs ever since then. It was creating awesome stuff just for the sake of awesomeness.

What do you think is stopping demos from taking off as a serious commercial art form? Just culture, or something more fundamental?

This is a very interesting question. I believe that demos didn't "take off" simply because most people don't find them interesting. If you ask me, the main reasons behind this are the inherent geekiness of this subculture (it's difficult to appreciate the craftsmanship behind demos for most people) as well as the fact that most of the active "sceners" are typically young people who don't necessarily have enough life experience or maturity yet to be able send a meaningful message with a lasting value that could capture the attention of a wider audience (this was definitely true for me). By the time they "grow up", they have jobs and families and other responsibilities and don't have time to produce demos.

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#14

Post by pheon »

Cushman wrote: post #11
mjn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interactive demo-like things have been taking off lately, but mostly under the label "games" (which sells more), even in the case where the game-ness is pretty minimal. Not sure if they're explicitly inspired by the demoscene or not, but interactive-procedural-graphics-and-sound stuff like Proteus feels very much like a demoscene production to me ( http://www.visitproteus.com/ ). Main difference imo is more focus on…

But strictly demos are non-interactive, right? That's the question I have: Is there a market for a pure-digital multimedia art form beside games?

market absolutely, look at the amount of scene stuff on the web.

I think your question is, will someone pay money for a pure off the wall demo - short answer is no.

long answer is they kinda have for a while, futuremark was the classic commercialized demo. difference tho is, it had a utility besides the eye candy.

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#15

Post by leif »

DrJokepu wrote: post #13
Cushman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think is stopping demos from taking off as a serious commercial art form? Just culture, or something more fundamental?

This is a very interesting question. I believe that demos didn't "take off" simply because most people don't find them interesting. If you ask me, the main reasons behind this are the inherent geekiness of this subculture (it's difficult to appreciate the craftsmanship behind demos for most people) as well as the fact that most of the active "sceners" are typically young people who don't necessarily have enough life…

I find this probably invalid, attractive though it may be. There are many "high art" forms that do not convey the massive effort put in to creating an image, yet it is this effort that makes the pieces desirable (lithography is one, but actually most art takes a lot more than the layperson realizes). Most examples of this came out of necessity but moved to an art form once the necessity was gone (though this was a very slow process). I think demos just haven't been around long enough for a larger artistic culture to build around them. Either art collectors will need to decide that demos are art, or the demo-scene itself needs to produce collectors. I think it's more likely that demos will become a small subculture within "programs as art", where art games will probably lead, since they are doing a better job of promotion and marketing outside their base.

The other thing demos are missing is an idea. Most media go through a phase where technique is paramount (in music, the virtuosos, in most visual art, loosely the "realists"), but the majority of fine art must address an important theme outside of the work itself to be interesting. Demos exist for themselves, they don't have any higher purpose. Games, in a small way, do, which may also account for their success so far.

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#16

Post by leif »

Cushman wrote: post #11
mjn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interactive demo-like things have been taking off lately, but mostly under the label "games" (which sells more), even in the case where the game-ness is pretty minimal. Not sure if they're explicitly inspired by the demoscene or not, but interactive-procedural-graphics-and-sound stuff like Proteus feels very much like a demoscene production to me ( http://www.visitproteus.com/ ). Main difference imo is more focus on…

But strictly demos are non-interactive, right? That's the question I have: Is there a market for a pure-digital multimedia art form beside games?

Yes, there is, but the way to break in is to start with things incorporating programs in small ways within a larger piece, call it experimental, and slowly make the composition more computer-centric.

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#17

Post by [deleted] »

leif wrote: post #15
DrJokepu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very interesting question. I believe that demos didn't "take off" simply because most people don't find them interesting. If you ask me, the main reasons behind this are the inherent geekiness of this subculture (it's difficult to appreciate the craftsmanship behind demos for most people) as well as the fact that most of the active "sceners" are typically young people who don't necessarily have enough life…

I find this probably invalid, attractive though it may be. There are many "high art" forms that do not convey the massive effort put in to creating an image, yet it is this effort that makes the pieces desirable (lithography is one, but actually most art takes a lot more than the layperson realizes). Most examples of this came out of necessity but moved to an art form once the necessity was gone (though this was a ve…

[deleted]

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#19

Post by mjn »

Cushman wrote: post #11
mjn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interactive demo-like things have been taking off lately, but mostly under the label "games" (which sells more), even in the case where the game-ness is pretty minimal. Not sure if they're explicitly inspired by the demoscene or not, but interactive-procedural-graphics-and-sound stuff like Proteus feels very much like a demoscene production to me ( http://www.visitproteus.com/ ). Main difference imo is more focus on…

But strictly demos are non-interactive, right? That's the question I have: Is there a market for a pure-digital multimedia art form beside games?

Some demos have interactive components I believe, though I'm having trouble digging up a prominent example at the moment. Not as games per se, but in the sense that the graphics/audio can change procedurally in response to keystrokes.

As far as non-interactive demo-style stuff, markets pop up occasionally for procedural/generative art, which is related, though again with less focus on compactness (except when necessary). There was a market for screensavers in the 90s, for example, and some had pretty involved procedural stuff going on. Today there are a handful of mobile apps doing generative graphics, e.g. http://superfiretruck.com/iteration/. I think you could probably sell a demoscene production or demo-pack on Android.

Re: Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

#20

Post by skrebbel »

DrJokepu wrote: post #2

I used to be the coder of a small demoscene team in the early 2000's. I never had as much fun writing computer programs ever since then. It was creating awesome stuff just for the sake of awesomeness.

group name, handles, id numbers please!

in fact, there's plenty of active demosceners here on HN. -waves!-

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