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Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

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Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#11

Post by roryokane »

gren wrote: post #3

I like CoffeeScript but I see it as a temporary language providing cool syntax features on top of Javascript. no offense but IMHO, we should focus on releasing the next Javascript and make it possible instead of writing better CoffeeScript compilers.

The problem is that making a better JavaScript you can actually use is a lot harder than making a better CoffeeScript. If you make a better CoffeeScript, you just have to write one compiler for it, written in JavaScript. If you make a better JavaScript, you have to lobby all of the major browser vendors to accept it. And then you have to wait for the browser teams to write the compiler. And even if you write the compilers yourself really fast for all of the open-source projects, you still have to wait for the Internet Explorer team to upgrade their compiler - you can't speed that up, because IE is closed-source. And finally, you can't safely use that new JavaScript on most sites until a few years later, when most people have upgraded their browsers. Whereas compiled CoffeeScript runs on even old browsers.

Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#12

Post by ashconnor »

krelian wrote: post #10

Someone capable of writing this kind of software will earn much more than $3000 per month at a full time job. I understand that this is probably not a for-profit project but if the guy can dedicate 4 full time months to this than he: 1) Can work full time 2) Needs the money Why not find a regular programming job that will pay you much more?He is obviously skilled enough to be hired.

Fun fact: Money doesn't motivate everyone.

Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#13

Post by hartror »

krelian wrote: post #10

Someone capable of writing this kind of software will earn much more than $3000 per month at a full time job. I understand that this is probably not a for-profit project but if the guy can dedicate 4 full time months to this than he: 1) Can work full time 2) Needs the money Why not find a regular programming job that will pay you much more?He is obviously skilled enough to be hired.

He is a masters student, so he is likely looking at a relatively entry level job assuming he hasn't had any other experience. Also it is most likely he is passionate about the project and wants to work on it and this way he can work on his passion and still pay rent and eat.

Beyond that this makes him more valuable, and will likely land him a well paying job working on CoffeeScript.

He has been sensible about it as well, on his KS profile page:

I am a research assistant at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, soon to receive my MS in computer science. In my free time (of which there hasn't been too much lately as I finish up my degree), I like to work on CoffeeScript and other open source projects, particularly those related to JavaScript. If you'd like to offer me a job either after the culmination of this project, or if this project does not get funded, feel free to contact me.

Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#14

Post by ScottBurson »

krelian wrote: post #10

Someone capable of writing this kind of software will earn much more than $3000 per month at a full time job. I understand that this is probably not a for-profit project but if the guy can dedicate 4 full time months to this than he: 1) Can work full time 2) Needs the money Why not find a regular programming job that will pay you much more?He is obviously skilled enough to be hired.

You're completely missing the point. He's not proposing to write a compiler as a way to make money; he's trying to get his living expenses covered so he can write this compiler that he wants to write, and which he believes will be useful to others.

Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#15

Post by hartror »

roryokane wrote: post #11
gren wrote: post #3

I like CoffeeScript but I see it as a temporary language providing cool syntax features on top of Javascript. no offense but IMHO, we should focus on releasing the next Javascript and make it possible instead of writing better CoffeeScript compilers.

The problem is that making a better JavaScript you can actually use is a lot harder than making a better CoffeeScript. If you make a better CoffeeScript, you just have to write one compiler for it, written in JavaScript. If you make a better JavaScript, you have to lobby all of the major browser vendors to accept it. And then you have to wait for the browser teams to write the compiler. And even if you write the comp…

Of course compiling to JS as CoffeeScript does is itself the answer to the IE issue. If and when there is a new JS one could conceivably compile the new JS to old JS for IE users. It adds an extra burden on dev teams but IE special cases aren't anything new to web devs and it allows the standard to move more quickly.

Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#16

Post by herge »

gren wrote: post #3

I like CoffeeScript but I see it as a temporary language providing cool syntax features on top of Javascript. no offense but IMHO, we should focus on releasing the next Javascript and make it possible instead of writing better CoffeeScript compilers.

The next version of javascript will only work on a minority of browsers, even years after it is adopted (http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/04/internet-explor...) while coffeescript works on all browsers now.

Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#17

Post by MatthewPhillips »

drcode wrote: post #4

One feature that would be helpful is support for the Google Closure Compiler's "Advanced Mode" in the generated javascript (coffeescript right now stumbles with the property renaming, especially when destructuring is used) I wish I could run this powerful "whole program optimizer" against my coffeescript code.

CoffeeScript doesn't have a built in minifier does it? You can still run Closure against the js output.

Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#18

Post by xal »

drcode wrote: post #4

One feature that would be helpful is support for the Google Closure Compiler's "Advanced Mode" in the generated javascript (coffeescript right now stumbles with the property renaming, especially when destructuring is used) I wish I could run this powerful "whole program optimizer" against my coffeescript code.

I agree with this. I chipped in 1k. I know it's not the goal of the project but I hope it lays the groundwork for an optional production mode compile run for coffee script that yields optimized and / or google closure compatible code.

Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#19

Post by jurre »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #17
drcode wrote: post #4

One feature that would be helpful is support for the Google Closure Compiler's "Advanced Mode" in the generated javascript (coffeescript right now stumbles with the property renaming, especially when destructuring is used) I wish I could run this powerful "whole program optimizer" against my coffeescript code.

CoffeeScript doesn't have a built in minifier does it? You can still run Closure against the js output.

Yeah but it would be nice if it was just a matter of setting a flag.

Re: Kickstarter: Make a Better CoffeeScript Compiler

#20

Post by pestaa »

drcode wrote: post #4

One feature that would be helpful is support for the Google Closure Compiler's "Advanced Mode" in the generated javascript (coffeescript right now stumbles with the property renaming, especially when destructuring is used) I wish I could run this powerful "whole program optimizer" against my coffeescript code.

Compressed property naming would be huge improvement, but then how would you really export to outer namespaces?

I recall Closure Compiler has custom syntax in multiline comments for that, but you can't (or shouldn't) expect Coffee to support it natively with custom sugar.

I found closures (as opposed to classes with properties/methods) to be much more compression-friendly and it made "Advanced Mode" not worth pursuing for me.

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