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Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

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Re: Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

#11

Post by sigurdjs »

patall wrote: post #7
MauranKilom wrote: post #5

This is a very terse note. Is there simply not more information available than "some price went negative on the market because someone made a mistake", or am I missing something that's implied here?

I think it's all there. The company in questions bid provides ~5800 MW for 24h, paying 203€ to those that use that power. Other companies will have accepted that bid (automatically) and will now tomorrow expect that power to be delivered (and get money for it), while other providers are planning to do something else with their power. The company mentioned may or may not have that much power available.

They cannot produce that amount of power and needs to buy it back on the secondary market. Will likely cost around 100Meur.

Re: Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

#12

Post by [deleted] »

patall wrote: post #7
MauranKilom wrote: post #5

This is a very terse note. Is there simply not more information available than "some price went negative on the market because someone made a mistake", or am I missing something that's implied here?

I think it's all there. The company in questions bid provides ~5800 MW for 24h, paying 203€ to those that use that power. Other companies will have accepted that bid (automatically) and will now tomorrow expect that power to be delivered (and get money for it), while other providers are planning to do something else with their power. The company mentioned may or may not have that much power available.

[deleted]

Re: Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

#13

Post by YetAnotherNick »

7thaccount wrote: post #8
MauranKilom wrote: post #5

This is a very terse note. Is there simply not more information available than "some price went negative on the market because someone made a mistake", or am I missing something that's implied here?

The market price is based off the cost of the marginal MW for some of these auctions. They tried selling power, but someone accidentally said they'd sell for a very large negative euro per MW hour amount and that set the price for the entire market and obligated them to pay the market to sell power. This is pretty rare, but not unheard of.

Can't officials just place a bid to buy power at whatever price(negative?) to even out the extra power that is not there?

Re: Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

#14

Post by 7thaccount »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #13
7thaccount wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market price is based off the cost of the marginal MW for some of these auctions. They tried selling power, but someone accidentally said they'd sell for a very large negative euro per MW hour amount and that set the price for the entire market and obligated them to pay the market to sell power. This is pretty rare, but not unheard of.

Can't officials just place a bid to buy power at whatever price(negative?) to even out the extra power that is not there?

They prob didn't notice until the market closed. Even then, you can't just undo a bid like that unless they have some kind of emergency clause to fix mistakes like this.

Re: Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

#15

Post by sigurdjs »

patall wrote: post #10
sigurdjs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you charge a 100kwh Tesla in Finland tomorrow you will be paid 50 euro, which is kind of extreme

They placed a bit at that price doesn't mean the market price will be that high.

It is an auction and everyone pays the same price. During the afternoon tomorrow every household in Finland will be paid significantly for their power usage unless they have a fixed price agreement, which is not that common

Re: Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

#16

Post by wcoenen »

sigurdjs wrote: post #6
MauranKilom wrote: post #5

This is a very terse note. Is there simply not more information available than "some price went negative on the market because someone made a mistake", or am I missing something that's implied here?

If you charge a 100kwh Tesla in Finland tomorrow you will be paid 50 euro, which is kind of extreme

At first I thought your math was wrong, because that doesn't match the numbers in the article. But then I checked the day-ahead prices at epexspot[1], and it's indeed showing -500 euro/MWh in the afternoon, from 14h00 to midnight!

[1] https://www.epexspot.com/en/market-data?market_area=FI&tradi...

Re: Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

#17

Post by miohtama »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #13
7thaccount wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market price is based off the cost of the marginal MW for some of these auctions. They tried selling power, but someone accidentally said they'd sell for a very large negative euro per MW hour amount and that set the price for the entire market and obligated them to pay the market to sell power. This is pretty rare, but not unheard of.

Can't officials just place a bid to buy power at whatever price(negative?) to even out the extra power that is not there?

Sales are final.

The seller (Norwegian Kinect Energy) will need to negotiate with other major marker participants to bail them out. But it’s likely in the interest of everyone of not to let them collapse.

The markets would be in disarray if there would be undo button for a trade. Preparations need to be made by large industry participants for every daily allocation.

Re: Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

#18

Post by codetrotter »

sigurdjs wrote: post #11
patall wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's all there. The company in questions bid provides ~5800 MW for 24h, paying 203€ to those that use that power. Other companies will have accepted that bid (automatically) and will now tomorrow expect that power to be delivered (and get money for it), while other providers are planning to do something else with their power. The company mentioned may or may not have that much power available.

They cannot produce that amount of power and needs to buy it back on the secondary market. Will likely cost around 100Meur.

FTA:

> "We are working with other market parties to solve this extreme situation," it said.

Sounds like they are working on an agreement with the others to avoid their mistake turning out to be as costly as that.

It’s probably in the interest of all of the participants that this is resolved with a less costly outcome. After all, who knows which of them will be the one making a similar mistake next time. It’ll be good for them then, if they played nicely now as that can inspire how future happenings will play out.

Re: Bidding error sees Finnish day-ahead power price tumble

#20

Post by yorwba »

Fingrid published two messages that sound like countermeasures to deal with the fallout: https://umm.nordpoolgroup.com/#/messages?publicationDate=all...

> Fingrid has closed intraday trade in directions FI>SE1 and FI>SE3 to ensure system security and balancing capacities concerning the non-matching situation in the Finland bidding zone after Day-ahead trades. Update: Intraday trade in direction FI>EE closed

> Fingrid is prepared to initiate Intraday purchases, if necessary, to ensure system security and balancing capacities concerning the non-matching situation in the Finland bidding zone after Day-ahead trades.

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