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Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

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Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#11

Post by avgcorrection »

nabla9 wrote: post #9
Ekaros wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also they forget that on average they are pretty benign. At least in my field they ask for quite tame things. And them being same union for everyone means that you don't really lose much to competitors. As they will have same rules in place...

Good point. Sweden has better institutions and labor laws to reduce friction and enable cooperation. Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. In sectoral bargaining , unions negotiate same deal with their counterparts represen…

> Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible.

I suppose they will always hide behind “competitive” edge. The more naked truth seems to be that between the stakeholders of the CEO+board of directors v.s. workers—avoiding the nebolous “company interest”—there is always inherently a zero sum game. Like one of the automative CEOs in the US who boasted about how she was paid according to her performance—her performance being, among other things, directly related to how low she could keep wages for the rank and file.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#12

Post by s1artibartfast »

avgcorrection wrote: post #11
nabla9 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. Sweden has better institutions and labor laws to reduce friction and enable cooperation. Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. In sectoral bargaining , unions negotiate same deal with their counterparts represen…

> Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. I suppose they will always hide behind “competitive” edge. The more naked truth seems to be that between the stakeholders of the CEO+board of directors v.s. workers—avoiding the nebol…

Yes, there is always a competition between workers and owners for money. However, The structure of US unions also change the incentives.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#13

Post by dv_dt »

DanielHB wrote: post #8
VoxPelli wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the idea of the Swedish model being that it’s better for employers and workers union to decide details as then they can be adapted to the need of every specific field rather than be dictated by the government and be the same for all. Makes for a much more agile, progressive and cooperative environment that benefits both businesses and workers. Unions in Sweden don’t try to get paid the most possible by the empl…

I had 3.5% union-agreed raise this year against an almost 10% inflation year-on-year. In Sweden the unions are not out to screw the employers over, the unions know the companies are under stress due to market downturn and share the burden with employees. Before the downturn I consistently had at least 1% raise above inflation for several years.

That seems like it supports the principle of shared pain and shared profit and it’s good that the laws and company/union structure supports that. I think it’s better for stable long term stability and growth of a nation.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#14

Post by s1artibartfast »

nabla9 wrote: post #9
Ekaros wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also they forget that on average they are pretty benign. At least in my field they ask for quite tame things. And them being same union for everyone means that you don't really lose much to competitors. As they will have same rules in place...

Good point. Sweden has better institutions and labor laws to reduce friction and enable cooperation. Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. In sectoral bargaining , unions negotiate same deal with their counterparts represen…

I would also add that many (most?) European countries allow multiple unions in the same shop, with worker choice. Inter-union competition is important to keep unions honest and aligned with their workers. I think this more than anything else is responsible for the anti-union sentiment in the US.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#16

Post by hef19898 »

willsmith72 wrote: post #15

It's only 120 employees.. Come on Tesla, do you have to prove how special you are?

Amazon is an interesting example: In Germany they insisted on paying their warehouse workers based on, but not boind by, Germany's collective bargained logistics agreement (Tarifvertrag) and not the retail one. On France, during the same time, they accepted the French retail agreement with the respective unions. Guess which one, retail or logistics, has the lower salaries in each country.

That Tesla isn't even willing to accept the smallest concessions in countries they operate in, no idea why they do this...

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#17

Post by virgildotcodes »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #14
nabla9 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. Sweden has better institutions and labor laws to reduce friction and enable cooperation. Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. In sectoral bargaining , unions negotiate same deal with their counterparts represen…

I would also add that many (most?) European countries allow multiple unions in the same shop, with worker choice. Inter-union competition is important to keep unions honest and aligned with their workers. I think this more than anything else is responsible for the anti-union sentiment in the US.

I'd say corporations and their wealthy owners, far more than any other factor, are responsible for the anti-union sentiment in the US.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#18

Post by InCityDreams »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #14
nabla9 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. Sweden has better institutions and labor laws to reduce friction and enable cooperation. Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. In sectoral bargaining , unions negotiate same deal with their counterparts represen…

I would also add that many (most?) European countries allow multiple unions in the same shop, with worker choice. Inter-union competition is important to keep unions honest and aligned with their workers. I think this more than anything else is responsible for the anti-union sentiment in the US.

...amd the Unions can also be in cahoots with each other (to not piss off the employer). A deal here, a deal there, between themselves and then with the employer, everybody is happy apart from the workers. Nb: 1st hand experience, currently ongoing.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#19

Post by Varqu »

nabla9 wrote: post #4

American companies often think that European unions are just stronger than unions in Europe. They don't realize that labor and union laws are different. Toys R Us tried the same in Sweden. They initially refused agreement and hired only non-union workers. But transport and logistics workers union and finance union started sympathy strike. Toys R Us didn't get deliveries and bank workers refused work related to compan…

[flagged]

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#20

Post by seee-I-Told-you »

Unions are a good thing, definately right now when the competition from "slave owners" in eastern Europe, China etc will exploit workers and outrun competition that way.

For Tesla, with China's export of electric vehicle it would be a good thing to "set the bar" and prevent low cost workers from entering the market - hence securing Tesla's position in Sweden.

And that's what the "Swedish model" of working is all about, Unions "set the lower bar" for what is acceptable and what is not.

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