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Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

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11–20 of 406 posts

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#11
I run a SaaS based in the EU. Most of my US customers have problems with their subscriptions, because US banks automatically assume that any "foreign" charge must be fraud, and block it.

I am wasting so much time explaining that they need to contact their bank, and they waste so much time calling their banks… it's disheartening.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#12
This happens because the cost of developing (or buying) good software and people to build a decent anti-fraud system is very clear to measure and the impact of the false positives is not. Also, as credit card fraud is usually the bank's responsibility, it makes sense for the leaders of that area to go towards more false positives than false negatives.

But it does not need to be that way and the government can and should help.

In my country (Brazil) banking is well regulated industry and we also have some good consumer laws. Both those things help a lot to show a clear impact of badly designed anti-fraud system to the banks. For example, the central bank has an online channel, where you can open a complaint, which the bank is obligated to answer/solve in 5 days and might get fined millions if they get lots of valid ones.

I used to get my card denied very often, with no heads-up or call to confirm. So I raised a complaint at the Central Bank, got an apology letter and call from my bank manager and I never again had my credit card blocked anywhere.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#13
I move to random corners of the world every 2-3 years and this is starting to give me real anxiety every time I try to make a purchase. One of my credit cards makes me jump through all of the verification and "Was this really you?" messages, then still locks my account half the time.

So many online stores will approve my purchase and bill the card with no issue, then cancel it a few hours later for vague security reasons. I remember when the credit card companies ran commercials about how easy and secure credit cards are, especially compared to checks, but now I feel like a criminal every time I try to use mine. I wonder if this violates any part of the merchant agreement that these stores are getting a 100% valid authorization on my credit card, but still aren't willing to accept my payment.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might help in specific cases yes, but in case of websites that give physical services (e.g delivery of products) it won't help much

In this case it might actually make it worse. Why are you suddenly, while in the US (for example), ordering physical services in India? My bank locked my credit card once due to suspected fraud. I asked what triggered it and they said "You never buy gas on this card". This was 15 years ago and I'm sure the algorithms have only gotten better. A different bank used to ask you to tell them if you were planning on travel…

My favorite was the time I used my Disney credit card to book a trip to Disney World - flight, hotel, tickets, everything. No problem. Then I get to Disney World and my card gets locked when I try to buy a churro because I used my card in a new location.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#15
post #12

This happens because the cost of developing (or buying) good software and people to build a decent anti-fraud system is very clear to measure and the impact of the false positives is not. Also, as credit card fraud is usually the bank's responsibility, it makes sense for the leaders of that area to go towards more false positives than false negatives. But it does not need to be that way and the government can and sho…

My problem is different, the bank approve my payment after 3D secure check, the offender is the service provider, they cancel the order and issue a refund with a vague statement!

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#17

I move to random corners of the world every 2-3 years and this is starting to give me real anxiety every time I try to make a purchase. One of my credit cards makes me jump through all of the verification and "Was this really you?" messages, then still locks my account half the time. So many online stores will approve my purchase and bill the card with no issue, then cancel it a few hours later for vague security rea…

Highly recommend: https://wise.com

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#18
You do understand India is a country with huge number of scammers who targets US people, and they are causing US billions of dollars of damage [1] each year? Sure, you might not be a criminal, but how would these companies know? Plus, since you mention "gift card", you do know that scammers use gift cards to launder money, right?

India doesn't put heavy hammer on scammers for various reasons. For example, since the scammers are mostly targeting foreign countries, and Indian police are well known for accepting bribes from these scammers, the scamming business is de-facto welcomed. They are too short-sighted to not see that the "industry" is damaging India's global reputation, which transitively affects you in negative way. It's unfortunate, and hope the situation improves over the time.

[1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/02/...

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#19
I have completely lost access to my Amazon account because I had the audacity to use a correct login and password from a recognized machine in a different part of the world from my shipping address. I called customer service and they said the only thing I can do is create a new account with a different email.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#20

I move to random corners of the world every 2-3 years and this is starting to give me real anxiety every time I try to make a purchase. One of my credit cards makes me jump through all of the verification and "Was this really you?" messages, then still locks my account half the time. So many online stores will approve my purchase and bill the card with no issue, then cancel it a few hours later for vague security rea…

I found that notifying my providers of upcoming moves eliminates this. Call them, tell them what you're doing and ask their advice (b/c there may be something you overlooked or they may have special problems of their own).

Anyway, they're doing you a service and notifying them is good etiquette. And like good etiquette, it often greases the wheels of commerce.

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