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EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

#11

Post by SenAnder »

theshrike79 wrote: post #2

Just in case people don’t read the article: the European Parliament’s position removes indiscriminate chat control and allows only for a targeted surveillance of specific individuals and groups reasonably suspicious of being linked to child sexual abuse material, with a judicial warrant. End-to-end encrypted messengers are exempted.

How does this differ from the status quo? I would assume targeted surveillance, without requiring 3rd parties sabotage the security of their products, is already a legal law enforcement procedure?

Re: EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

#12

Post by andersa »

WA wrote: post #8

> We safeguard trust in secure end-to-end encryption. We clearly exclude so-called client-side scanning, i.e. the installation of surveillance functionalities and security vulnerabilities in our smartphones. What does "exclude" mean in this context? Should client-side scanning be allowed or not?

They're trying to say it's not going to be required, and also they don't like it.

Re: EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

#13

Post by ponderings »

SenAnder wrote: post #11
theshrike79 wrote: post #2

Just in case people don’t read the article: the European Parliament’s position removes indiscriminate chat control and allows only for a targeted surveillance of specific individuals and groups reasonably suspicious of being linked to child sexual abuse material, with a judicial warrant. End-to-end encrypted messengers are exempted.

How does this differ from the status quo? I would assume targeted surveillance, without requiring 3rd parties sabotage the security of their products, is already a legal law enforcement procedure?

The EU standardizes a lot of laws that a lot of countries should have had already. I'm sure there must be bad examples but I've really only seen improvements in action. Countries have to part with their idiotic version or give up on their idiotic proposals. NL for example had some issues wanting forced labor for unemployed people with social support but that would be called a job and require minimum wage.

Re: EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

#14

Post by derefr »

SenAnder wrote: post #11
theshrike79 wrote: post #2

Just in case people don’t read the article: the European Parliament’s position removes indiscriminate chat control and allows only for a targeted surveillance of specific individuals and groups reasonably suspicious of being linked to child sexual abuse material, with a judicial warrant. End-to-end encrypted messengers are exempted.

How does this differ from the status quo? I would assume targeted surveillance, without requiring 3rd parties sabotage the security of their products, is already a legal law enforcement procedure?

Doesn't have to be different from the status quo. EU law acts upon member countries like the US federal constitution acts upon member states: it prevent individual members from ever changing their own laws to take more extreme positions than the recognized consensus position.

Re: EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

#15

Post by attah_ »

On the one hand this makes me very happy that democracy can actually work things out (and quite well at that)... but on the other hand i'm still horrified people seriously tried to push the original proposal. Not sure what i feel summing up the two.

Re: EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

#16

Post by SahAssar »

attah_ wrote: post #15

On the one hand this makes me very happy that democracy can actually work things out (and quite well at that)... but on the other hand i'm still horrified people seriously tried to push the original proposal. Not sure what i feel summing up the two.

My takeaway is that the EU as a whole is somewhat responsive to public feedback but it is still too far removed from the people and our will.

Re: EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

#17

Post by vaylian »

SenAnder wrote: post #11
theshrike79 wrote: post #2

Just in case people don’t read the article: the European Parliament’s position removes indiscriminate chat control and allows only for a targeted surveillance of specific individuals and groups reasonably suspicious of being linked to child sexual abuse material, with a judicial warrant. End-to-end encrypted messengers are exempted.

How does this differ from the status quo? I would assume targeted surveillance, without requiring 3rd parties sabotage the security of their products, is already a legal law enforcement procedure?

Correct. But the chatcontrol proposal would have changed that. The proposed law mandates untargeted surveillance and bypassing of encryption through client-side scanning.

Re: EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

#19

Post by attah_ »

SahAssar wrote: post #16
attah_ wrote: post #15

On the one hand this makes me very happy that democracy can actually work things out (and quite well at that)... but on the other hand i'm still horrified people seriously tried to push the original proposal. Not sure what i feel summing up the two.

My takeaway is that the EU as a whole is somewhat responsive to public feedback but it is still too far removed from the people and our will.

Too far removed or just too technologically inept? Not only was it technologically impossible; but they keep wanting to do things to people's online life that everyone that would never fly in offline life. It's like they think technology is somehow an optional extra, or even a passing fad that doesn't deserve the same rights and safeguards.

Re: EU parliament agreement to remove chat control and safeguard secure encryption

#20

Post by dotandgtfo »

SahAssar wrote: post #16
attah_ wrote: post #15

On the one hand this makes me very happy that democracy can actually work things out (and quite well at that)... but on the other hand i'm still horrified people seriously tried to push the original proposal. Not sure what i feel summing up the two.

My takeaway is that the EU as a whole is somewhat responsive to public feedback but it is still too far removed from the people and our will.

I feel like it's pretty obvious the bill wouldn't pass. It's just so off-base from all other EU tech policy. Banning end to end encryption is both ineffective and practically impossible. And sending "CSAM" (in a lot of cases teenagers/young adult nudes) to a presumably American tech company for manual screening is just so unequivocally wrong on a privacy level.

It seems like a lot of money went into making this get to the vote. My impression is that lobbyists have worked for this through the European commission - which is distasteful as it should never have been proposed. But it never stood a chance in the parliament. There seems to be checks and balances.

I have to credit the great work of people like Patrick Breyer and everyone who has demonstrated and organized across the EU these last months. Passivity leads to the worst outcomes.

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