Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 24 posts

Re: The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

#11

Post by 8ytecoder »

Yeul wrote: post #10
stevenwoo wrote: post #2

Have to admire the chutzpah to ask for leniency since stealing the bitcoins made the US government about three billion dollars by delaying the disposal of the bitcoins until they appreciated. He only had to serve one year after living it up for ten so not a bad trade off by some points of view.

White collar crimes. Meanwhile if you are a black man robbing a store you can be behind bars for 10 years.

What I’ve come to accept is that white collar crime “feels” distant to an average person. Even if some bank exec cooks up a way to steal a few dollars an account to the tune of millions or even if I’m phished $10k out out of my investment account, it doesn’t “feel” the same as knowing someone robbed my neighbor and pistol-butted them for a $1000 iPhone.

Re: The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

#12

Post by Scoundreller »

wodenokoto wrote: post #9
stevenwoo wrote: post #2

Have to admire the chutzpah to ask for leniency since stealing the bitcoins made the US government about three billion dollars by delaying the disposal of the bitcoins until they appreciated. He only had to serve one year after living it up for ten so not a bad trade off by some points of view.

On the other hand, everyone who didn’t dare to come out and ask the government for those coins now knows jimmys name, so I doubt he is off the hook.

I thought someone did try to claim their bitcoin back after the original Silk Road bitcoin seizure, after they deposited bitcoin and the site got seized before they could spend anything (plausible deniability of anything unlawful), but still lost.

Gov isn’t going to make it easy to “prove” you had no criminal intent, even if you didn’t do anything yet. Though it should really be the gov’s job to prove every deposit was criminal before seizing it imo.

Unlikely someone would succeed now either. And the gov would probably claim they only owed you the dollar value, not the bitcoin back (but does the opposite when they claim you owe them stolen bitcoin and that’s favourable to you).

Maybe it was a claim on a libertyreserve deposit?

Brian Krebs himself tried to put in a claim, but no updates since his initial contact from IRS in 2020 (7 years after the seizure): https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/02/a-light-at-the-end-of-li...

Re: The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

#13

Post by ipqk »

8ytecoder wrote: post #11
Yeul wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White collar crimes. Meanwhile if you are a black man robbing a store you can be behind bars for 10 years.

What I’ve come to accept is that white collar crime “feels” distant to an average person. Even if some bank exec cooks up a way to steal a few dollars an account to the tune of millions or even if I’m phished $10k out out of my investment account, it doesn’t “feel” the same as knowing someone robbed my neighbor and pistol-butted them for a $1000 iPhone.

One of the biggest "white-collar" crimes is wage-theft, which certainly isn't distant at all from the average worker.

Re: The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

#14

Post by diogenescynic »

Yeul wrote: post #10
stevenwoo wrote: post #2

Have to admire the chutzpah to ask for leniency since stealing the bitcoins made the US government about three billion dollars by delaying the disposal of the bitcoins until they appreciated. He only had to serve one year after living it up for ten so not a bad trade off by some points of view.

White collar crimes. Meanwhile if you are a black man robbing a store you can be behind bars for 10 years.

>Meanwhile if you are a black man robbing a store you can be behind bars for 10 years.

Maybe 30 years ago and entirely depends on the context--robbery generally involves the use of force or weapon. However, I regularly see shoplifting, open drug use, and other crimes that cops won't even come out for. I had someone hit and run on my car and the 911 dispatcher told me to file a 311 complaint.

Re: The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

#16

Post by appplication »

Scoundreller wrote: post #12
wodenokoto wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, everyone who didn’t dare to come out and ask the government for those coins now knows jimmys name, so I doubt he is off the hook.

I thought someone did try to claim their bitcoin back after the original Silk Road bitcoin seizure, after they deposited bitcoin and the site got seized before they could spend anything (plausible deniability of anything unlawful), but still lost. Gov isn’t going to make it easy to “prove” you had no criminal intent, even if you didn’t do anything yet. Though it should really be the gov’s job to prove every deposit w…

I agree in principle, but I think it’s also very realistic to suggest that there was no real legitimate and legal usage for Silk Road. It is possible some items and services for offer would be legal in some contexts, but the site existed for the express purpose of being a black market of illicit goods and services. I don’t see there being much plausible deniability.

Not a lawyer, but I think in this case it would reasonable for it to be on the defendant to demonstrate that their participation in such a black market was legal, in good faith, and a rational choice (I.e. no reasonable alternative existed). Just surfing Silk Road? Super reasonable, should not be illegal since there is no indication of intent. Deposited money into Silk Road? You definitely had intent to transact.

Re: The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

#17

Post by Scoundreller »

appplication wrote: post #16
Scoundreller wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought someone did try to claim their bitcoin back after the original Silk Road bitcoin seizure, after they deposited bitcoin and the site got seized before they could spend anything (plausible deniability of anything unlawful), but still lost. Gov isn’t going to make it easy to “prove” you had no criminal intent, even if you didn’t do anything yet. Though it should really be the gov’s job to prove every deposit w…

I agree in principle, but I think it’s also very realistic to suggest that there was no real legitimate and legal usage for Silk Road. It is possible some items and services for offer would be legal in some contexts, but the site existed for the express purpose of being a black market of illicit goods and services. I don’t see there being much plausible deniability. Not a lawyer, but I think in this case it would rea…

I’d say it was full of hard to get (and potentially embarassing) goods and services, legal or not. More of an anarcho-libertarian mindset than “I gonna break the law and the law only!”.

Plenty of things that aren’t illegal but regulators over-reach anyway and make it difficult to transact in. Then there’s the “illegal in USA, but not in _____”, or “illegal in France but not in USA”

Having to make a public claim that you were just going to buy a technically legal viagra analog is a good way to make sure nobody bothers (on top of the gov just making spurious claims that the marketplace is itself a criminal neighbourhood where anyone present is subject to arbitrary search/seizure).

Re: The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

#18

Post by takinola »

The crazy part of this story (and there are a lot of crazy parts), is that he kicked the whole thing off by calling the police to investigate a crime against him that was predicated on a crime he himself performed. It's basically "hey officer, that guy just stole from me the stuff that I previously stole from someone else!"

Re: The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

#19

Post by snydergd »

takinola wrote: post #18

The crazy part of this story (and there are a lot of crazy parts), is that he kicked the whole thing off by calling the police to investigate a crime against him that was predicated on a crime he himself performed. It's basically "hey officer, that guy just stole from me the stuff that I previously stole from someone else!"

"Your trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen!"

Re: The secret life of Jimmy Zhong, who stole – and lost – more than $3B

#20

Post by fakedang »

8ytecoder wrote: post #11
Yeul wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White collar crimes. Meanwhile if you are a black man robbing a store you can be behind bars for 10 years.

What I’ve come to accept is that white collar crime “feels” distant to an average person. Even if some bank exec cooks up a way to steal a few dollars an account to the tune of millions or even if I’m phished $10k out out of my investment account, it doesn’t “feel” the same as knowing someone robbed my neighbor and pistol-butted them for a $1000 iPhone.

Easy, your life wasn't threatened in the former, like it usually is in the latter. If I'm not mistaken, most of the charges are associated with the intention to commit a murder, threatening, extortion, etc. and not actual theft.

I assume (and this is completely hypothetical) that if I were to politely rob a grocery store with a smile and a veiled threat (reminds me of that scene with Clooney), I wouldn't have to face a high sentence.

Post reply on HN