Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 154 posts

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#11

Post by rollulus »

Initiatives like Chat Control makes me pessimistic. They keep on coming in all sort of variations and we defend. Given enough of such iterations, at some point though they’ll eventually be lucky and god knows how long it will take to revert things. And what I don’t get is that this sort of proposed legislation is more than Stasi could've ever wished. And yet it’s openly discussed as if it’s good idea. And note that “they” are supposed to represent “us”.

It freaks me out to the point that I rather have my country leave the EU.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#12

Post by hef19898 »

arminluschin wrote: post #8
maccard wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU don't have a monopoly on dumb laws. > The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence. Lots of us think that the world would be better if tech companies didn't play so fast and loose with our data, and were better regulated.

No end-to-end encryption means they have more data though.

No, it just means whatever data they have is less secure. Encryption does nothing about data collection.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#13

Post by jeroenhd »

fer wrote: post #10
roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

Spain has been traditionally and particularly idiotic about tech legislation. Some examples: - There was (and is) a fee on every CD-R, DVD-R, BR-R, hard drive, SSD, printer... as a "just in case it happens to store/copy copyright-protected material at some point ever" fee [0]. - They forced link aggregators to pay newspapers/sites for linking to their content, even just using their tags. [1]. So such insane statement…

> - There was (and is) a fee on every CD-R, DVD-R, BR-R, hard drive and SSD as a "just in case it happens to store copyright-protected material at some point ever" fee [0].

Sadly, Spain isn't the only country that does this. The copyright lobby has been very successful at making people fund their failing business model.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#14

Post by qwerty456127 »

How comes people using the well-known "children protection" manipulation and the "I have nothing to hide" fallacy to legally (thogh unenforceably) destroy privacy creating a total surveilance dystopia and put everyone in iminent danger (because whatever secrets only a government agency has access to, will sooner or later leak anway) are allowed to shape EU policies? To me they clearly seem either intentionally malevolent or fundamentally ignorant (thus professionally inadequate for the job) actors. Or am I wrong?

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#15

Post by hef19898 »

rollulus wrote: post #11

Initiatives like Chat Control makes me pessimistic. They keep on coming in all sort of variations and we defend. Given enough of such iterations, at some point though they’ll eventually be lucky and god knows how long it will take to revert things. And what I don’t get is that this sort of proposed legislation is more than Stasi could've ever wished. And yet it’s openly discussed as if it’s good idea. And note that “…

Because leaving the EU worked out so well last time someone tried.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#16

Post by izacus »

maccard wrote: post #6
roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

The EU don't have a monopoly on dumb laws. > The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence. Lots of us think that the world would be better if tech companies didn't play so fast and loose with our data, and were better regulated.

Yeah, in a world where DMCA exists (guilty until proven innocent... with no process to prove that for normal people), whining about EU is really out of the line.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#18

Post by jabradoodle »

hef19898 wrote: post #12
arminluschin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No end-to-end encryption means they have more data though.

No, it just means whatever data they have is less secure. Encryption does nothing about data collection.

This is a silly distinction, if they have just as much data but it's encrypted and they can't use it, most people would call that less data.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#19

Post by na2083z »

roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

[flagged]

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#20

Post by clarionbell »

hef19898 wrote: post #12
arminluschin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No end-to-end encryption means they have more data though.

No, it just means whatever data they have is less secure. Encryption does nothing about data collection.

Well encrypted data is practically useless to the collector. They could just as well be a random noise. Metadata may be worth something, but not nearly as much.
Post reply on HN