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Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

dirkriehle.com

11–20 of 27 posts

Re: Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

#11

Yesterday, we were “rethinking” open source licensing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37849958 Today, we’re celebrating the bait and switch. I can’t wait to see what nonsense we’re doing tomorrow.

The only thing I really wonder is how these things wind up on the frontpage here. Is it the lack of a downvote function?

Because holy shit, I can't imagine an article missing the point as hard as this one does. I'm trying my best to not be rude to random strangers on the Internet, but this is a level of misunderstanding that is so strong it feels difficult for my brain to not automatically assume malice. I'm not celebrating someone's market success when they just accomplished it by exploiting goodwill to get there, and almost universally pretend like what they're doing is good for open source, "protecting" open source, or anything else other than what it actually is, defending their business models.

I hope it's sarcasm and I'm just out of the loop.

Re: Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

#12
> They are called fake open source companies, betrayers of the spirit.

> As the product matures, the open source strategy often becomes less valuable to them, and many, if not all, will license away from open source to a more restrictive license.

"I released my product as OSS as a growth hack because no one would touch it if it wasn't OSS and I wanted to feed off the community good-will that comes with people contributing back and building an ecosystem around what they believe will is a community project. But I don't actually share in any of those silly values the OSS community has. Unrelated, why are you all mad at me?"

> Let it sink in: Without VCs, there would be no Terraform, and without Terraform, there would be no OpenTofu. Without VCs, there would be no ElasticSearch, and without ElasticSearch, there would be no OpenSearch. The direct way from idea to OpenTofu or OpenSearch did not happen; it needed a VC-funded startup to blaze the trail.

Either this guy is high off his ass and I want some, or has reached the astral plane of scamming VCs. Yes pour money into this cool new software I promise it will be profitable one day. Ignore the poison pill that enables-- nay encourages, the community to just take it for themselves when the time comes.

Re: Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

#14
Stone Soup (Revised)

Everybody in the village was starving, there was no food. A traveller came and told the people that he could make soup from a stone and water. Soon, the cauldron was bubbling. The traveller tasted the soup and said, “Yummy! But it would taste even better if we added a turnip.” A villager had a turnip, and threw it into the pot. Other villagers added some spices, a parsnip, a few mushrooms, some barley, and other ingredients. The mayor had a taste, and pronounced it delicious and nourishing.

Then the traveller took the cauldron to the city, and poured the contents into cans, which he sold for $20 per can. This generated enough revenue that he could open his own soup factory.

This is called relicensing.

Re: Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

#15
> These complaints were only justified, if the company had promised open source forever and had anchored altruism and minimizing profits as their reason of existence. And if they had done that, who would have believed it and would the company been able to achieve its goals? The answer is obviously: No, non-profits don’t get venture capital (VC) funding, and VC funding is critical to building the software in the first place.

So close to getting it right... Consider the countercase, where the company says up front that the product is only open source temporarily. Would anyone use them? Maybe, but they'd have a way harder time getting any buy-in.

> The complaint is usually not about a company providing open-source software, but rather about (a) withholding the closed complement and (b) eventually dropping the open source license for future development. Again, without the closed complement there wouldn’t be the commercial open-source software in the first place, so complaining about it is pointless.

On the contrary, pulling a bait-and-switch is actively harmful to the ecosystem because it steals oxygen from would-be competitors:

> Let it sink in: Without VCs, there would be no Terraform, and without Terraform, there would be no OpenTofu.

Or, without Terraform, there would be other options instead of TF having been very nearly the option until they decided to shoot their own foot off. (Yes, there are still other options, but it's telling that ex. pulumi uses TF providers)

> Most commentators view the licensing away from open source as a negative event. I’d like to argue that it is a milestone to celebrate. By licensing away the company signals that the product has achieved a mature state and that the help of an open source strategy is not needed any longer: The company has proved to the world that the software can be built and that the economy at large cares and thinks this software is a good idea. This is an important achievement!

The switch to rent-seeking mode can mean that they think they've succeeded, but actually it's more likely to mean that they've realized they aren't making enough money, so... no, even if we were willing to celebrate other people succeeding when that means them pulling the rug, it's not actually true.

Re: Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

#16
post #11

Yesterday, we were “rethinking” open source licensing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37849958 Today, we’re celebrating the bait and switch. I can’t wait to see what nonsense we’re doing tomorrow.

The only thing I really wonder is how these things wind up on the frontpage here. Is it the lack of a downvote function? Because holy shit, I can't imagine an article missing the point as hard as this one does. I'm trying my best to not be rude to random strangers on the Internet, but this is a level of misunderstanding that is so strong it feels difficult for my brain to not automatically assume malice. I'm not cele…

[deleted]

Re: Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

#17
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is "open source strategy" purely an economic tool? Yes, because the only thing a good company cares about is economics -- namely, money. This is, very literally, what the Cathederal and the Bazaar was about. Exploiting people's labour. ESR (i.e. the founder of the Open Source movement) very literally made an argument in the latter half of the book that goes "You get better performance out of people when you don't p…

In what universe is ESR the founder of the open source movement? He wrote that book, and… fetchmail. Do you have him confused with RMS?

RMS is for Free Software, not Open Source.

Re: Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

#18
post #11

Yesterday, we were “rethinking” open source licensing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37849958 Today, we’re celebrating the bait and switch. I can’t wait to see what nonsense we’re doing tomorrow.

The only thing I really wonder is how these things wind up on the frontpage here. Is it the lack of a downvote function? Because holy shit, I can't imagine an article missing the point as hard as this one does. I'm trying my best to not be rude to random strangers on the Internet, but this is a level of misunderstanding that is so strong it feels difficult for my brain to not automatically assume malice. I'm not cele…

When I first opened this article, I thought (and hoped) it was lampooning the Fermyon article.

Re: Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

#19

Yesterday, we were “rethinking” open source licensing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37849958 Today, we’re celebrating the bait and switch. I can’t wait to see what nonsense we’re doing tomorrow.

Here's the real answer for what we're doing tomorrow :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37872553

Re: Let's celebrate relicensing from an open source to a proprietary license

#20
post #9

While it may be better to have love and lost than never loved at all, you are not going to see people celebrate the breakup of what they thought was a good relationship. It is true that VC money has created a ton of great open source software that would have never been created otherwise. But it is not a forgone conclusion that the software eventually going closed was a requirement of that VC investment. Nor do I see…

> But it is not a forgone conclusion that the software eventually going closed was a requirement of that VC investment.

True, but it is the best option these vendors currently see, otherwise they wouldn't do it. There are alternatives, but none has stuck so far.

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