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Is sugar toxic?

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Re: Is sugar toxic?

#11

Post by ams6110 »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #5

I do a ton of review of nutrition studies and here's the conclusion I've come to: The primary concerns are the biggest killers: cancer and CVD. The main causal pathway by which carbohydrates (of which simple sugars have the largest effect) affect CVD incidence is via the simultaneous lowering of HDL and raising of blood serum triglycerides. This is much more important for predicting CVD episodes than the 'low LDL' yo…

Refined sugar has only been a big part of our diet for the past couple of hundred years (not even a blink of an eye on an evolutionary time scale). Breads and grain-based foods have been part of our diet for somewhat longer, but highly refined white flour is also comparatively novel in our diet.

I cut all added sugar and all flour (bread, pasta, pizza, etc) and most other grains and processed food from my diet about 18 months ago. I basically went on the paleolithic diet, though I'm not really fanatical about it except for the sugar and flour. I mainly eat unprocessed meat, eggs, leafy vegetables, nuts, some fruit (try to stick to berries) and minimal dairy. I went from 215 lbs to 165 without any real effort (exercise, etc). I'm convinced that the obesity "epidemic" and the need for so many people go on Lipitor and similar drugs as they get older is directly attributable to our sugar- and flour-laden diets.

I do miss freshly baked bread but on balance I think it's worth it. Will I live longer? Who knows, but I feel better eating what my body is evolved to consume.

Re: Is sugar toxic?

#12

Post by jeffdavis »

swang wrote: post #2

Here is a video from Dr. Robert Lustig about sugars. It is an hour and a half long but very informative. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM After watching it, I've considerably reduced my sugar intake. I still drink soft drinks during lunch/dinner, but I am slowly weaning myself off them and onto water/tea and other better alternatives.

I watched that a while ago and I remember him talking about the amount of salt in a Coke, as though it were a conspiracy of some kind.

But Coke has very little salt -- about 45 mg.

So the rest of the talk seemed to be colored with a conspiratorial tone, from my perspective. Am I wrong to be so dismissive?

Re: Is sugar toxic?

#13

Post by hristov »

revolvingiris wrote: post #7

Good message: "don't over consume and stick to unprocessed sources". It bothers me though that the word sugar is in the title since they really mean sucrose. Both fructose and glucose occur naturally (fruit, veggies, starches) and are not harmful.

Fructose is harmful, unfortunately. Sucrose gets split by the body into one fructose and one glucose molecule. And it is the fructose that is harmful because it cannot be properly processed by the liver in large quantities. Sucrose is only harmful in as much as it produces fructose.

It is true that fructose appears naturally all over the place. And that is the tricky part. The liver can actually process fructose fine if it gets a little at a time and simultaneously receives fiber. Almost everywhere fructose occurs naturally it occurs with fiber. Thus, the human body is perfectly capable of processing fructose in its natural state, but once you start concentrating it and removing the fiber the problems come about.

This is why fruits and veggies are perfectly healthy but refined sugars are bad for you.

Re: Is sugar toxic?

#14

Post by ams6110 »

revolvingiris wrote: post #7

Good message: "don't over consume and stick to unprocessed sources". It bothers me though that the word sugar is in the title since they really mean sucrose. Both fructose and glucose occur naturally (fruit, veggies, starches) and are not harmful.

A lot of modern fruit has been cultivated to increase its sugar content. An apple 200 years ago was a lot less sweet than one today.

Re: Is sugar toxic?

#15

Post by lhnn »

latch wrote: post #6

I found Dr Lustig's talk enlightening because I always thought of it simply as input -> output (sucrose -> glucose). In retrospect, it's obvious that the bio-checmial process your body uses to convert that is pretty darn important. However, as cool as it is to get re-introduced to things like ATP and Krebs Cycle, the driving message we get from experts has been a constant for a long time: avoid processed foods. It's…

What is considered "unprocessed" foods at the grocer? Raw beans, rice, whole grain wheat? Is the ground beef/deli meat "unprocessed" by your definition?

Serious question. My impression is that anything not cut from an animal myself is processed by some harmful additive, so I've given up.

Re: Is sugar toxic?

#16

Post by frou_dh »

revolvingiris wrote: post #7

Good message: "don't over consume and stick to unprocessed sources". It bothers me though that the word sugar is in the title since they really mean sucrose. Both fructose and glucose occur naturally (fruit, veggies, starches) and are not harmful.

Speaking of words, it's weird to often see 'veggies' in writing because to me that is squarely baby-talk. No offence - I'm sure it's a regional thing.

Re: Is sugar toxic?

#17

Post by baddox »

ams6110 wrote: post #11
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #5

I do a ton of review of nutrition studies and here's the conclusion I've come to: The primary concerns are the biggest killers: cancer and CVD. The main causal pathway by which carbohydrates (of which simple sugars have the largest effect) affect CVD incidence is via the simultaneous lowering of HDL and raising of blood serum triglycerides. This is much more important for predicting CVD episodes than the 'low LDL' yo…

Refined sugar has only been a big part of our diet for the past couple of hundred years (not even a blink of an eye on an evolutionary time scale). Breads and grain-based foods have been part of our diet for somewhat longer, but highly refined white flour is also comparatively novel in our diet. I cut all added sugar and all flour (bread, pasta, pizza, etc) and most other grains and processed food from my diet about…

I don't think that something being "comparatively novel in our diet" is a sufficient or even useful argument.

Re: Is sugar toxic?

#18

Post by meric »

Title can be improved.

What is toxicity? "A central concept of toxicology is that effects are dose-dependent; even water can lead to water intoxication when taken in too many doses, whereas for even a very toxic substance such as snake venom there is a dose below which there is no detectable toxic effect. Toxicity is species-specific, lending cross-species analysis problematic. Newer paradigms and metrics are evolving to bypass animal-testing, while maintaining the concept of toxicity endpoints."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicity

Re: Is sugar toxic?

#19

Post by aaronblohowiak »

meric wrote: post #18

Title can be improved. What is toxicity? "A central concept of toxicology is that effects are dose-dependent; even water can lead to water intoxication when taken in too many doses, whereas for even a very toxic substance such as snake venom there is a dose below which there is no detectable toxic effect. Toxicity is species-specific, lending cross-species analysis problematic. Newer paradigms and metrics are evolvin…

The dose makes the poison - Paracelsus

Re: Is sugar toxic?

#20

Post by jared314 »

jeffdavis wrote: post #12
swang wrote: post #2

Here is a video from Dr. Robert Lustig about sugars. It is an hour and a half long but very informative. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM After watching it, I've considerably reduced my sugar intake. I still drink soft drinks during lunch/dinner, but I am slowly weaning myself off them and onto water/tea and other better alternatives.

I watched that a while ago and I remember him talking about the amount of salt in a Coke, as though it were a conspiracy of some kind. But Coke has very little salt -- about 45 mg. So the rest of the talk seemed to be colored with a conspiratorial tone, from my perspective. Am I wrong to be so dismissive?

I had the same reaction when he went off on the public restriction on alcohol (52m), but the science sounded reasonable. With that in mind, I cut my sugar and carb intake. I lost fat. So, I chalk it up to his personality or a reaction to being ignored for a long period of time.
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