Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April • Hacker News Board

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#11

Post by Pxtl » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #3

This an evidence of gaping holes in digital consumer rights. People bought eShop software and physical hardware that they can no longer use or update. Regulators should force companies to open source any games and associated server software that consumers paid to "own", yet companies are no longer willing to maintain.

Honestly, I hate blockchains, but I feel like they're the ultimate solution for digital goods. I don't want to own NFTs for their own sake as "speculative assets" or "stores of value" or nonsense like that, but an NFT that is my certificate of ownership of a copy of like a videogame or a streamable movie, etc. would just make sense. Combine that with a requirement that (a) binaries be freely redistributable, and (b) binaries must authenticate against a blockchain and not against private servers.

I mean that still doesn't solve the problem of games that require servers to operate for online play, but at lest that would return digital goods to near-parity with physical media in terms of copy-protection and transferability and ownership.

If you go the extra mile and require that companies publish free dedicated-server-binaries for end-of-life products and allow clients to point to custom servers, you could still run the game while still protecting the seller from piracy. I mean, you'd have no security patches so if you're running eg your own Star Wars Galaxies server you'd want it to be invitational-only and secured with a VPN, since playing with strangers would get the server and clients hacked.

That seems like it would be a reasonable compromise for video-game preservation - old games are therefore available indefinitely to anyone who purchased access to them (and this is transferable), but without companies having to abandon their copyright protections.

I mean this approach would probably have to be mandated by a government or a near-monopoly e-store like Valve, so I'm sure it would get screwed up and fail, but a boy can dream.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#12

Post by itronitron » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #10

haunter wrote: post #9

>It will still be possible to use online services for the following software but that may also end at some point in the future. >Pokémon Bank I have 0 hopes tbh, the writing is on the wall. Pokemon Bank is an awesome feature, basically allowing you to play through the whole franchise from Pokemons across all games...

Won't that make it blatantly obvious just how much each game is a copy of the previous one?

Technically, no... because that's already obvious.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#13

Post by Pxtl » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:32 PM UTC

notamy wrote: post #4

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #3

This an evidence of gaping holes in digital consumer rights. People bought eShop software and physical hardware that they can no longer use or update. Regulators should force companies to open source any games and associated server software that consumers paid to "own", yet companies are no longer willing to maintain.

The 3DS launched in early 2011 and the Wii U launched in late 2012. I don’t know that it’s unreasonable to discontinue supporting them after a decade.

The Atari 2600 launched in 1977. If you can get your hands on a working console and cartridge, they will still play regardless of the status of Atari's company software infrastructure. You can even transfer ownership of the cartridge to other people at no cost. The license even permits resale!

Cloud-based software allows corporations to rewrite ownership rights however they see fit.

edit: Aside, marking the lifespan of a product from launch is wrong. It should be marked from the date of distribution of the last product from the manufacturer, because that's the last time somebody was able to buy a "new" one, and a buyer has a reasonable expectation of long-term-support for buying a new piece of hardware. For example, I can buy a 2022 Moto G Stylus from the Motorola website today. They promise 3 years of security updates... but that phone was released a year and a half ago, so they're actually promising 1.5 years of security patches.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#14

Post by mynameisvlad » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #13

notamy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 3DS launched in early 2011 and the Wii U launched in late 2012. I don’t know that it’s unreasonable to discontinue supporting them after a decade.

The Atari 2600 launched in 1977. If you can get your hands on a working console and cartridge, they will still play regardless of the status of Atari's company software infrastructure. You can even transfer ownership of the cartridge to other people at no cost. The license even permits resale! Cloud-based software allows corporations to rewrite ownership rights however they see fit. edit: Aside, marking the lifespan…

Do you think a person’s cartridge of Pokemon Sun is going to stop working after this?

Online services means multiplayer games won’t work anymore, but single player physical games won’t magically stop working just because the online services shut down.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#15

Post by blincoln » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #11

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #3

This an evidence of gaping holes in digital consumer rights. People bought eShop software and physical hardware that they can no longer use or update. Regulators should force companies to open source any games and associated server software that consumers paid to "own", yet companies are no longer willing to maintain.

Honestly, I hate blockchains, but I feel like they're the ultimate solution for digital goods. I don't want to own NFTs for their own sake as "speculative assets" or "stores of value" or nonsense like that, but an NFT that is my certificate of ownership of a copy of like a videogame or a streamable movie, etc. would just make sense. Combine that with a requirement that (a) binaries be freely redistributable, and (b)…

> a requirement that (a) binaries be freely redistributable, and (b) binaries must authenticate against a blockchain and not against private servers

If the software runs on general-purpose hardware, it would be trivial to modify it to bypass the blockchain authentication step. If the software is only compatible with some sort of locked-down platform that won't run modified code, then it already has an enforcement mechanism (whatever is used to prevent running modified code), and a blockchain is redundant.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#16

Post by derstander » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared.

Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator.

Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc.

After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the creator of revenue.

Actually, looking back at what I wrote, I think maybe I’m just describing the Copyright system as it was originally envisioned before times were extended to such ridiculous lengths. Whoops.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#17

Post by Cerium » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:35 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #11

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #3

This an evidence of gaping holes in digital consumer rights. People bought eShop software and physical hardware that they can no longer use or update. Regulators should force companies to open source any games and associated server software that consumers paid to "own", yet companies are no longer willing to maintain.

Honestly, I hate blockchains, but I feel like they're the ultimate solution for digital goods. I don't want to own NFTs for their own sake as "speculative assets" or "stores of value" or nonsense like that, but an NFT that is my certificate of ownership of a copy of like a videogame or a streamable movie, etc. would just make sense. Combine that with a requirement that (a) binaries be freely redistributable, and (b)…

Why should society protect copyright for goods that are discontinued? Discontinuation of a product is generally a financial decision; in essecne you are making a public declaration that the product is unprofitable and throwing up your hands.

Your right to protection against piracy should end when you discontinue a product.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#18

Post by hoherd » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:42 PM UTC

notamy wrote: post #4

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #3

This an evidence of gaping holes in digital consumer rights. People bought eShop software and physical hardware that they can no longer use or update. Regulators should force companies to open source any games and associated server software that consumers paid to "own", yet companies are no longer willing to maintain.

The 3DS launched in early 2011 and the Wii U launched in late 2012. I don’t know that it’s unreasonable to discontinue supporting them after a decade.

I think you're missing the point of the parent's suggestion.

> Regulators should force companies to open source any games and associated server software that consumers paid to "own", yet companies are no longer willing to maintain.

Nintendo shouldn't be forced to support them, but consumers should be able to continue using them. The hardware still works great, and even if not, we have virtual hardware. This should be no different from me being able to pick up a game of Clue that my parents bought in the 60's and play it. These 3DS and Wii-U games were purchased by millions of people, and they are part of our global culture. People should not have to worry that they are legally prohibited from finding ways to play them.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#19

Post by VyseofArcadia » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #3

This an evidence of gaping holes in digital consumer rights. People bought eShop software and physical hardware that they can no longer use or update. Regulators should force companies to open source any games and associated server software that consumers paid to "own", yet companies are no longer willing to maintain.

I wonder, if there were legal requirements to maintain services like this, would we see fewer of them? Suddenly, your service becomes, after a certain point, a liability.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#20

Post by bentley » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #14

Pxtl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Atari 2600 launched in 1977. If you can get your hands on a working console and cartridge, they will still play regardless of the status of Atari's company software infrastructure. You can even transfer ownership of the cartridge to other people at no cost. The license even permits resale! Cloud-based software allows corporations to rewrite ownership rights however they see fit. edit: Aside, marking the lifespan…

Do you think a person’s cartridge of Pokemon Sun is going to stop working after this? Online services means multiplayer games won’t work anymore, but single player physical games won’t magically stop working just because the online services shut down.

> Do you think a person’s cartridge of Pokemon Sun is going to stop working after this?

Actually… I have a legitimate question here. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild was broken on launch for the Wii U, and required a day one patch to play. It’s been stated that people who bought a game from the eShop will retain their ability to download it. But has it been clarified whether people who buy cartridges or discs secondhand will still have access to patches? (The fine article implies yes. So the obvious next question is, when will those capabilities be shut down?)