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Bacteria converts carbon dioxide into liquid fuel

extremetech.com

11–20 of 29 posts

Re: Bacteria converts carbon dioxide into liquid fuel

#11
In short, it sounds like you could have a car with solar panels on the roof, and they could drive the creation of liquid fuel that could then be used to power the car’s engine.

Sure. Leave your car in the sun for a week and you can drive it three miles.

People need to get how diffuse solar energy is.

(Oh, and could someone fix the title? "Bacteria" is plural.)

Re: Bacteria converts carbon dioxide into liquid fuel

#12
post #9

Unfortunately The Paper [1] is closed source. I can't find much information; no comparison with existing, chemical synfuels processes (like methanol via syngas [CO]). There's a serious problem with the general idea: "clean" CO2 is hard to get. You can get concentrated (>10%) CO2 streams from a power plant, which could work for synfuels, but ultimately that's still transferring fossil carbon into the air (if more effi…

You could do it effectively if you could create some massive dendritic type structure with a huge surface area of flat panels to absorb CO2 directly from the atmosphere. Since the CO2 concentration is so low you would need vast areas of these CO2 farms and so you would have to put some effort into making them look artistically pleasant to avoid public opposition.

The construction costs would be incredible, the only solution would be some sort of von-Neumann type nano-machines that could manufacture copies of themselves and gradually 'seed' the system over a large landmass.

Liquid fuel would be easily tapped from the trunk of these structures - although persuading people to consume a high colorific value syrup type liquid produced by bacteria on their pancakes could be tricky (unless they were Canadian)

Re: Bacteria converts carbon dioxide into liquid fuel

#14
post #13

Or, you know, you could just use the electricity to convert water to hydrogen (itself a usable fuel). How much of the energy required for this reaction is actually coming from the carbon / atmosphere? I would guess very little.

The thing is that hydrogen has very limited utility as a fuel. Compressing it is as energy-intensive as producing it in the first place, and even compressed, it takes up a very large amount of volume. A pressure vessel identical in volume to a standard 15gal gas tank would hold less than 2.5 gge (gasoline gallon equivalents) of 700bar compressed hydrogen.

There are all sorts of storage media under development to get around this hydrogen volumetric density problem, but none are much closer to market than this butanol project. At the very least, an existing vehicle fleet would require significant engine modifications to run on hydrogen (not to mention fuel storage and delivery system modifications).

Re: Bacteria converts carbon dioxide into liquid fuel

#16

In short, it sounds like you could have a car with solar panels on the roof, and they could drive the creation of liquid fuel that could then be used to power the car’s engine. Sure. Leave your car in the sun for a week and you can drive it three miles. People need to get how diffuse solar energy is. (Oh, and could someone fix the title? "Bacteria" is plural.)

Good point, but it does end up depending on the vehicle. A 6 m^2 15% efficient array parked outside in a desert climate could generate 5.4kWh a day and over 37kWh a week. GM's EV-1 had efficiencies of over 6mi/kWh. As such, a vehicle could be built that could go 32 miles a day off sunlight alone, using ho-hum $1/W solar cells and without any tracking.

Of course, at that point, you don't need to futz with bacteria and internal combustion, when batteries store and release that energy much more efficiently.

Re: Bacteria converts carbon dioxide into liquid fuel

#17

In short, it sounds like you could have a car with solar panels on the roof, and they could drive the creation of liquid fuel that could then be used to power the car’s engine. Sure. Leave your car in the sun for a week and you can drive it three miles. People need to get how diffuse solar energy is. (Oh, and could someone fix the title? "Bacteria" is plural.)

Okay downvoters, let's run the numbers.

Suppose you have about 1 square meter of solar cells on the roof of your car. From Wikipedia, a typical solar PV installation in the US or Europe gets 1kWh/sqm/day (depending on latitude, of course). How far will 1kWh take you? Let's see, gasoline contains about 37 kWh/gal (US), which at 40mpg is a little over 1 mile/kWh.

So if your electricity-to-fuel conversion process is 50% efficient, you'll get about half a mile on a day's charge.

Re: Bacteria converts carbon dioxide into liquid fuel

#18
post #15

Can I get infected with this bacteria? If I get it in my lungs will it poison me with biofuel?

I have never heard of this organism as a human pathogen in my bacterial pathology classes, so it's at least not a common one. My guess is if it likes a liquid environment rich in formic acid, it might be more at home in your gut than in your lungs, but it would likely be out-competed by your existing intestinal flora, unless maybe you just killed them all off with an antibiotic regimen or some-such.

Re: Bacteria converts carbon dioxide into liquid fuel

#19

In short, it sounds like you could have a car with solar panels on the roof, and they could drive the creation of liquid fuel that could then be used to power the car’s engine. Sure. Leave your car in the sun for a week and you can drive it three miles. People need to get how diffuse solar energy is. (Oh, and could someone fix the title? "Bacteria" is plural.)

Good point, but it does end up depending on the vehicle. A 6 m^2 15% efficient array parked outside in a desert climate could generate 5.4kWh a day and over 37kWh a week. GM's EV-1 had efficiencies of over 6mi/kWh. As such, a vehicle could be built that could go 32 miles a day off sunlight alone, using ho-hum $1/W solar cells and without any tracking. Of course, at that point, you don't need to futz with bacteria and…

32 miles a day... in Arizona... in a car 80% of whose upper surface area is solar cells, leaving little room to see out. I can imagine some enthusiast building one, but I don't think it's a mass-market product.

None of this, I hasten to add, is to impugn the idea of using bacteria to fix CO2. It's just that the idea of doing it in your car, driven by solar cells on the roof, is silly. The numbers just don't pencil out.

(And as you point out, it's doubly silly since you would use batteries anyway.)

Re: Bacteria converts carbon dioxide into liquid fuel

#20

In short, it sounds like you could have a car with solar panels on the roof, and they could drive the creation of liquid fuel that could then be used to power the car’s engine. Sure. Leave your car in the sun for a week and you can drive it three miles. People need to get how diffuse solar energy is. (Oh, and could someone fix the title? "Bacteria" is plural.)

Exactly right. The premise that this technology would be integrated into cars is ridiculous, and my guess is it was added by the "journalist". This technology would most likely be used in places where feeds of concentrated CO2 are already available, such as coal power plants, water treatment, waste management, compositing, etc., and the fuel would be sent off to be distributed through fuel stations just as it is now.

The only impact this might possibly have on automobile design would be to try to recuperate the carbon from the exhaust using some of the power generated from the combustion to convert the exhaust CO2 into formic acid, to be exchanged for fuel in the next refueling. My guess is it's not going to pay to do that though.

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