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Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned

posthog.com

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Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned

#11
post #5

What are peoples thoughts on sponsoring open source projects as a way to build awareness for dev tools? I think I've seen PostHogs logo in sponsor sections in some READMEs.

we mainly do this because it can just help with getting PRs approved if we want to fix an issue in something we rely on (and it is nice / we can list as a perk), and a little influence can be very valuable if we want to give feedback on a project's direction. doesn't do much on the growth side as far as i'm aware, for us at least.

Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned

#12
post #5

What are peoples thoughts on sponsoring open source projects as a way to build awareness for dev tools? I think I've seen PostHogs logo in sponsor sections in some READMEs.

I have never once clicked a "sponsors" logo, but I have definitely seen a logo I know and probably thought better of the company for it - baring GloboMegaCorps that I have long since calcified my opinions about.

Though, if you want to sponsor me GloboMegaCorp, my opinion can definitely be bought.

Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned

#13
The article has some helpful points. But as a programmer-SAAS-founder-who-took-over-ads operation, I have some tips on some insights we gleaned doing paid ads (and getting it to be profitable for us):

1. Most important tip: is your product ready for ads?

  - Do not do paid ads too early.

  - Do it once you know that your product is compelling to your target audience.

  - Ads are likely an expensive way of putting your product in front of an audience.

    - No matter how good the ad operation, unless your product can convince a user to stay and explore it further, you've just gifted money to Google/X/Meta whoever.

  - If you haven't already, sometimes when you think you want ads, what you more likely and more urgently need is better SEO optimization
2. The quality of your ad is important, but your on-boarding flows are way more important still.

  - Most of the time, when we debugged why an ad wasn't showing conversions, rather than anything inherent to the ad, we found that it was the flows the user encountered _AFTER_ landing on the platform that made the performance suffer.

  - In some cases, it's quite trivial: eg. one of our ads were performing poorly because the conversion criterion was a user login. And the login button ended up _slightly_ below the first 'fold' or view that a user saw. That tiny scroll we took for granted killed performance.
3. As a founder, learn the basics

  - This is not rocket science, no matter how complex an agency/ad expert may make it look.

  - There are some basic jargon that will be thrown around ('Target CPA', 'CPC', 'CTR', 'Impression share'); don't be intimidated

   - Take the time to dig into the details

   - They are not complicated and are worth your time especially as an early stage startup

  - Don't assume that your 'Ad expert' or 'Ad agency' has 'got this'.

    - At least early on, monitor the vital stats closely on weekly reviews

  - Ad agencies especially struggle with understanding nuances of your business. So make sure to help them in early days.
4. Targeting Awareness/Consideration/Conversion

  - Here I have to politely disagree with the article

  - Focus on conversion keywords exclusively to begin with!

  - These will give you low volume traffic, but the quality will likely be much higher

  - Conversion keywords are also a great way to lock down the basics of your ad operation before blowing money on broad match 'awareness' keywords

  - Most importantly, unless your competition is play dirty and advertising on your branded keywords, don't do it.

    - Do NOT advertise on your own branded keywords, at least to begin with.

    - Most of the audience that used your brand keywords to get to your site are essentially just repeat users using your ad as the quickest navigation link. Yikes!
5. Plug the leaks, set tight spend limits

  - You'll find that while your running ads, you are in a somewhat adversarial dance with the ads platform

  - Some caveats (also mentioned in the article)

    - Ad reps (mostly) give poor advice, sometimes on borderline bad faith. We quickly learnt to disregard most of what they say. (But be polite, they're trying to make a living and they don't work for you.)

    - (Also mentioned in the article) Do not accept any 'auto optimization' options from the ads platform. They mostly don't work.

  - Set tight limits on spends for EVERYTHING in the beginning. I cannot emphasize this enough. Start small and slowly and incrementally crank up numbers, whether it be spend limits per ad group, target CPA values, CPC values - whatever. Patience is a big virtue here

    - If you're running display ads, there are many more leaks to be plugged: disallow apps if you can (article mentions why), and disallow scammy sites that place ads strategically to get stray clicks.

    - For display ads, controlling 'placement' also helps a lot
6. Read up `r/PPC` on Reddit

  - Especially the old, well rated posts here. 

  - They're a gold mine of war stories from other people who got burnt doing PPC, whose mistakes you can avoid.

Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned

#14
> Quora

>

> Dark horse – good for conversion and awareness.

> Quite cheap, good targeting.

> Seriously, I don't know why more people don't use Quora.

Amazed to hear that. All my homies hate Quora, I would assume its the same amongst other developer groups.

Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned

#16

While I try reading this, the site loads something and scrolls to the top of the page, even on 2. try. Who designed this? This page sucks.

Looks good to me using Firefox for Android, but I tried Chrome and there it looks a bit weird.

Perhaps it's time for a "Best viewed on Firefox" button?

Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned

#17

While I try reading this, the site loads something and scrolls to the top of the page, even on 2. try. Who designed this? This page sucks.

Yikes, I'm the founder of this company (one of my colleagues wrote this piece) - just saw it appear here. We shipped a rather huge change to the website recently (we're trying to let other people post stuff too), think we accidentally made it janky and missed this. Will fix when the right person wakes up - he's west coast US! Sorry for QA via HN :)

FWIW, fully a quarter of the screen is taken up by fixed position elements that are entirely irrelevant to a reader. When I see this on sites I want or have to use, I add cosmetic rules to delete the sticky elements. When I see it on sites I don't have to use, I close the tab.

I don't claim that this makes it a net loss for you from a money standpoint, nor that I'm representative of a majority of your market, but I _do_ suspect I'm the sort of potential customer that isn't easily studied in an A/B test.

Cheers!

Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned

#18
> This is why we ask all users where they heard about PostHog whenever they sign up or book a demo – it's a simple (optional) free text field. Enough of our users say 'ad on Google' or similar that we know paid ads do actually reach a large chunk of them.

You have to be careful with how you word questions.

If you ask how I first noticed that something exists, then yes, an ad may well be it because ads are so in your face and hard to avoid. But it almost never is what convinces me to try the thing. In some cases ads actually dissuade me from trying the thing.

For instance, I'm extremely allergic to the word "proprietary". If that's your selling point, then you automatically fall way down in my list. I like my software boring and useful for my ends, not to be locked into somebody else's system.

Pretty much always what does it for me in the end is positive discussion in technical spaces.

Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned

#20
Day after day, the paid(online) ads is becoming traditional and all the startup owners or new entrepreneurs are diverting themselves into guerilla techniques. Buying Tiktok comments, ProductHunt reviews and more. Rather than spending the money on the algorithmic advertisement, they are trying to build a base where they can create a "base" for their possible customers. I really liked the article, and I think this is showing a couple of crucial signs about the topic I mentioned.
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