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Rethinking the Luddites

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Re: Rethinking the Luddites

#11

Post by alexb_ »

NoThankYouTho wrote: post #7
kwhitefoot wrote: post #4

I thought that this had been the conventional view for a while now. Certainly it is what i have believed for many years, that the Luddites were reacting to iniquitous working practices and market forces.

You are definitely correct, but there is a popular perception that Luddites are just reactionarily "opposing progress" because it hurts their own personal interests.

Those are actually both the same thing. Luddites were being reactionary, they were opposing progress because it hurt their own personal interests, and it was 100% rational for them to do this (and thus should be expected).

Re: Rethinking the Luddites

#12

Post by alexb_ »

Opposing technological development because it might cost people jobs is how you fall behind as a country. The last thing I want is for China to become the leader of the world because they actually pushed forward with technological progress.

Re: Rethinking the Luddites

#14

Post by coolhand2120 »

People are happy to use tech like wix to build a web page because building web pages is hard. Virtually every designer, artist, writer, and musician, were all very happy to use wix even though it cost the jobs of legions of developers. “Finally I can do what these nerds can do without their help”. I really don’t see the difference.

Re: Rethinking the Luddites

#15

Post by hef19898 »

NoThankYouTho wrote: post #7
kwhitefoot wrote: post #4

I thought that this had been the conventional view for a while now. Certainly it is what i have believed for many years, that the Luddites were reacting to iniquitous working practices and market forces.

You are definitely correct, but there is a popular perception that Luddites are just reactionarily "opposing progress" because it hurts their own personal interests.

And the advoctaes for this kind of change are only pushing it, against all resistence and withbany means, because it serves their personal interest. Difference being, the Ludditea had their livelihoods and health to loose. The other just a bunch of even more money earned on the backs of an exploited and abused workforce.

Re: Rethinking the Luddites

#16

Post by lewhoo »

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #9

I'm not observing a situation of people massively losing their jobs or losing money. If you do, feel free to share your experience. So far, the AI technology has been a nice toy/support for the people.

This is true but the "prophecy" is this is unavoidable due to rapid development and no ceiling in sight.

Re: Rethinking the Luddites

#17

Post by Animats »

They came for the manual laborers, and I was not a manual laborer, so I did nothing.

Then they came for the skilled craftsmen, and I was not a skilled craftsman, so I did nothing.

Then they came for the clerks and bookeepers, and I was not a clerk or a bookkeeper, so I did nothing.

Now they've come for the chattering classes, and there is no one left to speak for me.

Re: Rethinking the Luddites

#18

Post by its_ethan »

mouse_ wrote: post #8
w_for_wumbo wrote: post #3

There's plenty of rhetoric about whether technology advancements will be a good thing or not. But I think that distracts from the core message, that the most important matter is not whether we use technology, but how we treat our fellow humans. By replacing labour with robots and not compensating them, you're sending a clear message that you don't respect people and the value that they bring. We have a mandate for us…

The people in positions of power are going to treat their fellow humans as poorly as they can get away with. That's how they got their positions of power.

I think you'd find that, on average, "as poorly as they can get away with" actually does mean that they treat people quite well.

I'm not sure what hierarchies you've been a part of where people actively trying to treat people poorly leads to their success - I'd wager those are few in far between in reality, and over represented in media. Maybe you're cynical about a few high profile companies or how U.S. politics appears, but positions of power exist everywhere in society, and society wouldn't be even remotely functional if people followed your assumed behavior.

Re: Rethinking the Luddites

#20

Post by giraffe_lady »

its_ethan wrote: post #18
mouse_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people in positions of power are going to treat their fellow humans as poorly as they can get away with. That's how they got their positions of power.

I think you'd find that, on average, "as poorly as they can get away with" actually does mean that they treat people quite well. I'm not sure what hierarchies you've been a part of where people actively trying to treat people poorly leads to their success - I'd wager those are few in far between in reality, and over represented in media. Maybe you're cynical about a few high profile companies or how U.S. politics app…

You've never heard of sweatshops or labor trafficking?
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