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American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

bbc.co.uk

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Re: American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

#11

Post by arp242 »

mock-possum wrote: post #3

Small dogs are more aggressive, big dogs can do more damage. Ultimately, it’s a matter of training - how are they raised? - and a matter of the owner maintaining control. I really don’t believe in the whole “some breeds are inherently evil” thing.

> I really don’t believe in the whole “some breeds are inherently evil” thing.

I don't think anyone really claims that; or at least very few people claim that. It's about averages in behaviour, combined with the greater damage you mentioned. I think almost everyone agrees that on average there are differences in personality between dog breeds. These dogs have been responsible for more than half of deaths in recent years, and I don't think half the dogs in the UK are Bully XLs.

In the end basically nothing at all is lost by banning a few breeds beyond upsetting a few people who want a dog in a very peculiar shape and accept no other shapes, to which I say: "if you're such a dog lover then why do you care so greatly about the exact shape of your dog?"

Re: American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

#12

Post by arp242 »

sky_rw wrote: post #7

Im not a fan of the premise that a small percentage of a population being responsible for an outsized percentage of violence is a result of their breeding. It's the environment and socialization factors that drive this.

Fact remains these dogs are literally killing people; over 50% of deaths in recent years.

I don't care one iota if it's "breeding" or "environment and socialization factors" or "CIA dog mind control"; this is a problem and these people remain dead.

Re: American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

#14

Post by genter »

gongdzhauh wrote: post #4
mock-possum wrote: post #3

Small dogs are more aggressive, big dogs can do more damage. Ultimately, it’s a matter of training - how are they raised? - and a matter of the owner maintaining control. I really don’t believe in the whole “some breeds are inherently evil” thing.

I used to think this, but then I talked to a doctor friend and they explained that most of the dog bites they see in their hospital come from pit bulls with good owners. The dogs had never acted out in the past and were loving family dogs, until something snapped and out of seemingly nowhere the dog attacked someone. The statistics on dog bites in many countries are also pretty clear that some breeds, like pit bulls…

I've had multiple family members and close friends with pit bulls. They are all extremely affectionate, loving dogs. I've also seen several of the aforementioned dogs turn aggressive in the blink of an eye. I think what makes them so dangerous is that people let their guard down because they think that their dog is special and not aggressive.

Re: American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

#15

Post by [deleted] »

bitcharmer wrote: post #10
sky_rw wrote: post #7

Im not a fan of the premise that a small percentage of a population being responsible for an outsized percentage of violence is a result of their breeding. It's the environment and socialization factors that drive this.

It's time to stop spreading this false narrative. It's genuinely baffling how many people will disregard hard evidence and statistics simply because it doesn't fit their world view.

[deleted]

Re: American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

#16

Post by bitcharmer »

brianjking wrote: post #13
bitcharmer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics

.

Here's a few links if you've spent the last few years under a rock:

Wikipedia page on fatal incidents in UK alone: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in...

Two minutes worth of googling:

Children:

5-month old and 2 year old https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tragic-pit-bull-attack-cla...

26 day old infant https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-mother-charged-pit-bull-m...

4 year old attacked, mom dies defending https://nypost.com/2021/12/20/mom-has-arms-ripped-dies-stopp...

ever menacing 5 day old https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-infant-dies-after-pit-bul...

pitbull puppy chews fingers off infant https://nbc-2.com/news/2023/06/20/port-charlotte-woman-arres...

Elderly:

70 year old woman became a snack https://nypost.com/2022/07/27/long-island-woman-mauled-to-de...

70 year old man gets mauled https://www.fox5dc.com/news/dog-owner-speaks-after-pitbull-m...

mauls elderly couple, bites animal control https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/pit-bull-had-history-o...

89 year old woman dies, 12 year old attacked https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/colorado/articles/20...

67 year old took a walk, gets face eaten https://news.yahoo.com/had-him-face-elderly-asian-173504735....

Women:

25 year old mauled in elevator https://nypost.com/2022/03/24/video-shows-columbian-woman-ma...

19 year old woman and small dog attacked https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/21/amazon...

39 year old woman, nothing but bone left on arm https://nypost.com/2022/04/29/deputy-recounts-vicious-south-...

59 year old woman killed by her babies https://www.newsweek.com/pit-bull-fatal-attack-west-el-paso-...

28 year old dog-sitter killed https://www.newsweek.com/oklahoma-woman-killed-dog-attack-pi...

Re: American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

#17

Post by alyandon »

gongdzhauh wrote: post #4
mock-possum wrote: post #3

Small dogs are more aggressive, big dogs can do more damage. Ultimately, it’s a matter of training - how are they raised? - and a matter of the owner maintaining control. I really don’t believe in the whole “some breeds are inherently evil” thing.

I used to think this, but then I talked to a doctor friend and they explained that most of the dog bites they see in their hospital come from pit bulls with good owners. The dogs had never acted out in the past and were loving family dogs, until something snapped and out of seemingly nowhere the dog attacked someone. The statistics on dog bites in many countries are also pretty clear that some breeds, like pit bulls…

It'd probably be better to look at bite statistics normalized against the population size of a particular breed rather than "which breed causes more bites". Popularity of a particular breed can skew that statistic.

Re: American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

#18

Post by lotsofpulp »

genter wrote: post #14
gongdzhauh wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this, but then I talked to a doctor friend and they explained that most of the dog bites they see in their hospital come from pit bulls with good owners. The dogs had never acted out in the past and were loving family dogs, until something snapped and out of seemingly nowhere the dog attacked someone. The statistics on dog bites in many countries are also pretty clear that some breeds, like pit bulls…

I've had multiple family members and close friends with pit bulls. They are all extremely affectionate, loving dogs. I've also seen several of the aforementioned dogs turn aggressive in the blink of an eye. I think what makes them so dangerous is that people let their guard down because they think that their dog is special and not aggressive.

What makes them dangerous is that they have the capacity to cause massive amounts of damage with no recourse unless people have a knife or gun nearby.

We do not let people walk around society with hyenas and tigers and lions and wolves and chimpanzees. What makes a dog with "pit" or "bull" in its name any different? And maybe this applies to other dog breeds too, I am not a dog person, but the point is if an animal is capable of causing serious harm to people, then society has an interest in restricting its population where people do not want to worry about being attacked by animals.

Re: American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

#19

Post by brianjking »

bitcharmer wrote: post #16
brianjking wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.

Here's a few links if you've spent the last few years under a rock: Wikipedia page on fatal incidents in UK alone: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in... Two minutes worth of googling: Children: 5-month old and 2 year old https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tragic-pit-bull-attack-cla... 26 day old infant https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-mother-charged-pit-bull-m... 4 year old attacked, mom di…

So where is the statistical evidence that says this is due to any given breed? Correlation does not equal causation.

Re: American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says

#20

Post by sky_rw »

Buttons840 wrote: post #9
mock-possum wrote: post #3

Small dogs are more aggressive, big dogs can do more damage. Ultimately, it’s a matter of training - how are they raised? - and a matter of the owner maintaining control. I really don’t believe in the whole “some breeds are inherently evil” thing.

Let's skip the emotionally charged words like "evil". Do you believe some breads are more likely (statistically speaking) to kill a human than others?

I will never stop finding it hilarious how quickly progressives run to racial crime statistics and hold demographic breakdowns of violence sacrosanct when it comes to dogs breeds.
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