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BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

forbes.com

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Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#11

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #6
perryizgr8 wrote: post #4

The right way to sell subscriptions is for services that actually incur ongoing costs for the company. Charging a subscription for hardware and software already built into the car, and not dependent on any external servers or anything is just plain anti-consumer. There are plenty of services BMW can charge for that people will happily pay, like remote start, remote monitoring etc.

>Charging a subscription for hardware and software already built into the car, and not dependent on any external servers or anything is just plain anti-consumer. What's the principle here? That because it already exists, consumers don't have to pay for it? How far can we stretch this? Suppose there's a streaming service (eg. netflix or spotify) that supports downloads, does that it's "anti-consumer" to deny them acce…

[deleted]

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#12

Post by chrisdhoover »

justapassenger wrote: post #7
gruez wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Charging a subscription for hardware and software already built into the car, and not dependent on any external servers or anything is just plain anti-consumer. What's the principle here? That because it already exists, consumers don't have to pay for it? How far can we stretch this? Suppose there's a streaming service (eg. netflix or spotify) that supports downloads, does that it's "anti-consumer" to deny them acce…

> Moreover, is there anything fundamentally different between paying $2000 (one time) for a heated seat upgrade, and $200/year for 10 years (or whatever the expected life of a car is)? Yes, it’s extremely different. You own it vs you lease it.

Recurring monthly revenue is something a business really wants. It smoothes their cash flow, so yes there is a difference.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#13

Post by m01 »

gruez wrote: post #6
perryizgr8 wrote: post #4

The right way to sell subscriptions is for services that actually incur ongoing costs for the company. Charging a subscription for hardware and software already built into the car, and not dependent on any external servers or anything is just plain anti-consumer. There are plenty of services BMW can charge for that people will happily pay, like remote start, remote monitoring etc.

>Charging a subscription for hardware and software already built into the car, and not dependent on any external servers or anything is just plain anti-consumer. What's the principle here? That because it already exists, consumers don't have to pay for it? How far can we stretch this? Suppose there's a streaming service (eg. netflix or spotify) that supports downloads, does that it's "anti-consumer" to deny them acce…

Regarding the last question - yes. If you sell the car the add-on stays there for the next buyer. If the car lasts longer than 10 years you pay less overall. If some online validation thing stops working you don't lose access to the feature. Prices can't and don't need to be changed afterwards, not even if e.g. taxes, card fees or similar change. Etc.

Opinions my own. EDIT: typo.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#15

Post by lambdasquirrel »

gumballindie wrote: post #5

BMW in particular, and german carmakers as a whole are in for a rough decade. Declining quality and increasing competition will pose the kind of risks not even eu protectionism can shield them from. One such risk is china. German carmakers desperately need new markets and china is one of them. But germany and the eu cant bully china and they will want access to european markets in return. And what i am reading and he…

After the revelations about carmaker privacy concerns[0], it seems that having options from privacy-conscious Germany is necessary for the market. BMW was one of the better ones (admittedly in a sea of quite-bad), according to Mozilla's read of the legalese.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37404413

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#16

Post by lambdasquirrel »

seydor wrote: post #8

It's not controversial, everyone thinks it's ridiculous

One wonders why the automaker's can't just charge a reasonable monthly fee for 1. tracking where you left your car parked, and 2. remote-locking your car. I would vastly prefer that to playing games with our data, or trying all these gimmicks like charging for extra acceleration.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#17

Post by gnicholas »

seydor wrote: post #8

It's not controversial, everyone thinks it's ridiculous

It was actually a little more nuanced — they offered a one-time purchase (at a normal-ish price), or the option to purchase via subscription. I have no problem with this arrangement, which literally offers consumers more choices. The concerns I would have are (1) that the one-time pricing would gradually creep up, so that in a few years it becomes untenable, or (2) that when you sell the car, the heated seats would be deactivated. We'll never know if (1) would have happened, and I wasn't ever able to figure out if (2) was the case.

But you are right that the outrage-bait titles made people almost uniformly upset, since it wasn't clear that this was an additional option, and that people could still purchase heated seats outright.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#18

Post by gnicholas »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #16
seydor wrote: post #8

It's not controversial, everyone thinks it's ridiculous

One wonders why the automaker's can't just charge a reasonable monthly fee for 1. tracking where you left your car parked, and 2. remote-locking your car. I would vastly prefer that to playing games with our data, or trying all these gimmicks like charging for extra acceleration.

When my iPhone disconnects from my car (even one without CarPlay), it remembers the car's location.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#19

Post by bluGill »

branon wrote: post #9
perryizgr8 wrote: post #4

The right way to sell subscriptions is for services that actually incur ongoing costs for the company. Charging a subscription for hardware and software already built into the car, and not dependent on any external servers or anything is just plain anti-consumer. There are plenty of services BMW can charge for that people will happily pay, like remote start, remote monitoring etc.

Not remote start. Plenty of remote start units are standalone, install into the vehicle and operate offline using their own dedicated fobs. Subaru sells first-party remote start units which operate this way. They also have a subscription service that offers remote start, but make no mistake: if your carmaker ONLY allows remote start with a subscription and won't install a standalone unit, you are being had.

More importantly if i'm not 'close' to my car I don't want it to start accidentally. I've already started my car while it was the garrage and I was.sitting in my favorite chair with no intent to go anywhere.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#20

Post by gnicholas »

thfuran wrote: post #10
gruez wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Charging a subscription for hardware and software already built into the car, and not dependent on any external servers or anything is just plain anti-consumer. What's the principle here? That because it already exists, consumers don't have to pay for it? How far can we stretch this? Suppose there's a streaming service (eg. netflix or spotify) that supports downloads, does that it's "anti-consumer" to deny them acce…

But it's not a payment plan, it's a subscription. If you drive the car for 25 years, you're still on the hook every year if you want the seats to heat.

BMW maintained the one-time purchase option. The subscription was added for people who only wanted to pay intermittently (or who were buying a BMW new, but somehow didn't have the $500 to pay for heated seats upfront).
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