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"Lighten up"

therealkatie.net

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Re: "Lighten up"

#11

Post by tptacek »

It's a big deal. Not "lightening up" is a service to the company (and, I guess, the whole industry). I'm married to a woman who has put up with a lot of shit in this field (for instance: job interviews in which she was shown pictures of her interviewer's bare ass; I was, fortunately for all involved, in a different state when that happened) and am the father of an absurdly intelligent 10 year old girl who will, with enough not- taking- one- iota- of- shit for the next 10 years, not have to suffer any of this.

So I guess what I'm saying is thanks.

Re: "Lighten up"

#12

Post by maukdaddy »

This just makes me sad for the industry as a whole. Unbelievable that in today's world women have to put up with this.

Guys, want to know how you can help change these kinds of attitudes? When you see/hear another guy make these kinds of comments, pull them aside and have a talk. Maybe it's a gentle reminder of how hurtful and counterproductive these kinds of attitudes are, or maybe it's a forceful "I never want to hear that shit again" - depends on the type of personality you're dealing with. Regardless, you need to have the difficult conversations with friends or colleagues who act this way, because turning a blind eye and ignoring the problem doesn't help anyone.

Re: "Lighten up"

#13

Post by crusso »

@kcunning - How do you contrast your desire to have a perfectly professional relationship with everyone you work with vs a desire to enjoy an office environment where you can joke around and have fun?

While I understand your answer may well be, "Leave the jokes at home, Mr. Colbert. I'm here to code and make a paycheck." I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humorous interactions.

While there are always those who don't know how to avoid crossing the lines of appropriateness; do you feel that most of your coworkers are doing so?

Re: "Lighten up"

#14

Post by tptacek »

[deleted] wrote: post #7
Jun8 wrote: post #5

"What do you say to the guy who sits across from you when you dress up and makes a comment to everyone about it? "Oop, Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!" Yikes! What sort of a place was this, what sort of people was she working with? I've never seen/heard anything remotely like this. It is sort of hard to generalize from such morons to the whole tech field.

[deleted]

The point is not the one moron who does it; the point is having herself to escalate the issue to HR. She's the victim, but she has to play the role of the "problem".

Try to think about what you'd do if you were in the room with a team member who made a comment like that. I know what I'd do, and I don't think it is an industry norm yet. We need to get there.

If it helps you to see it: think about what you'd do if a team member made a lighthearted racist joke in front of an African American team member. See how we actually do have the norm there? Let's just get it applied to the whole half of humanity having to deal with this stuff.

Re: "Lighten up"

#15

Post by crusso »

[deleted] wrote: post #7
Jun8 wrote: post #5

"What do you say to the guy who sits across from you when you dress up and makes a comment to everyone about it? "Oop, Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!" Yikes! What sort of a place was this, what sort of people was she working with? I've never seen/heard anything remotely like this. It is sort of hard to generalize from such morons to the whole tech field.

[deleted]

Maybe... but she indicates that she's dealing with this issue constantly when she said, "It's probably not even the first thing I've had to deal with that day, unless you've gotten to me pretty early. "

So if she works a 9-5 schedule and pretty early means, say, before 10 -- does that mean that she's dealing with maybe 4 sexually inappropriate comments on average per day?

Re: "Lighten up"

#16

Post by kcunning »

crusso wrote: post #13

@kcunning - How do you contrast your desire to have a perfectly professional relationship with everyone you work with vs a desire to enjoy an office environment where you can joke around and have fun? While I understand your answer may well be, "Leave the jokes at home, Mr. Colbert. I'm here to code and make a paycheck." I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humor…

I'm actually a fairly baudy person. I've made sailors blush. I don't mind joking around at all.

What irks me is when someone does something sexist, and I do speak up about it... and I'm told to 'lighten up'. If it was important enough for me to say something, then at least acknowledge that.

Most of my co-workers are awesome. They'd never dream of making the dress comment, or tell me to go get their coffee. But it doesn't have to be everyone. Even a few jerks can make an environment go from awesome to horrible.

Re: "Lighten up"

#17

Post by blake8086 »

kcunning wrote: post #8
blake8086 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion, what is a potential solution to this problem?

1. Awareness. 2. You'd be shocked how much better my environment would be if, when I expressed concern about something, I was not told to 'lighten up', but if my concern was treated as valid.

I feel that awareness will be difficult.

I think the people who pay attention to things like your blog post are the people who are already sympathetic.

It's like if you wrote a guide about "How To Not Be An Asshole", assholes would probably not read it.

Re: "Lighten up"

#18

Post by MattRogish »

maukdaddy wrote: post #12

This just makes me sad for the industry as a whole. Unbelievable that in today's world women have to put up with this. Guys, want to know how you can help change these kinds of attitudes? When you see/hear another guy make these kinds of comments, pull them aside and have a talk. Maybe it's a gentle reminder of how hurtful and counterproductive these kinds of attitudes are, or maybe it's a forceful "I never want to h…

I think it has to be immediate and public. That doesn't mean severe or disrespectful. Everyone has to do it, but it certainly should be set up from the top down that this is unacceptable and will stop.

I take a page from the Results Only Work Environment: http://www.rowe.iambestbuy.com/sludge_busting.html

Re: "Lighten up"

#19

Post by jamilb »

Not that I disagree, but I wonder if having a reserved personality has more to do with being disrespected than the gender. I know lots of women who I wouldn't dare make jabs at. Similarly, many of my submissive male friends get pushed around more so than my female ones.

Thoughts?

Re: "Lighten up"

#20

Post by crusso »

kcunning wrote: post #16
crusso wrote: post #13

@kcunning - How do you contrast your desire to have a perfectly professional relationship with everyone you work with vs a desire to enjoy an office environment where you can joke around and have fun? While I understand your answer may well be, "Leave the jokes at home, Mr. Colbert. I'm here to code and make a paycheck." I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humor…

I'm actually a fairly baudy person. I've made sailors blush. I don't mind joking around at all. What irks me is when someone does something sexist, and I do speak up about it... and I'm told to 'lighten up'. If it was important enough for me to say something, then at least acknowledge that. Most of my co-workers are awesome. They'd never dream of making the dress comment, or tell me to go get their coffee. But it doe…

Fair enough. Is the place large enough to have a separate HR department? It's one thing to joke around, but another to make unwanted sexist comments. I've never known any HR folks who put up with the smallest bit of it. It's their job to get righteously pissed off at that kind of behavior.
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