Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 39 posts

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#11

Post by plaguepilled »

naikrovek wrote: post #4

is it a dark pattern if it clearly asks you to do something, and doesn't lie or deceive you about what it's going to do if you accept or decline? (no, it isn't a dark pattern if it isn't lying or tricking you into making a decision you would not make otherwise. this particular behavior isn't defensible behavior, and it isn't an example of a dark pattern, either.) is this how languages evolve so fast? people using wor…

Even in your framing (which I don't accept) it is a dark pattern because it constructs a bias of user behaviour that, statistically, will push users towards something that is both good for the company and not reflective of the user's goals. This IS a trick, because it relies on the user not knowing those incentives to be effective.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#12

Post by parker_mountain »

I have honestly given up on Windows. It has extremely strong fundamentals, but they seem determined to mine their users for money instead of investing in a platform. I find what's happening in Apple world to be dire, but at least they have been good stewards of the user. Desktop Linux has its own serious problems as well (there's a reason its at 3%~ market penetration).

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I think Apple for now, keep my usage of Apple services to a reasonable minimum, and keep an eye on what's going on in the Linux world.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#13

Post by lolc »

deafpolygon wrote: post #10

> Windows 11 gave me an unsolicited toaster popup, with the default action being to change Chrome's default search engine to Bing Not doubting you, but as a W11 home user for a while- I haven't seen this myself. > This is an atrocious dark pattern and a huge overreach for an operating system It's not a dark pattern. It's definitely an annoying thing - how is this different from Apple reminding you to set-up Apple Pay…

Calling it a dark pattern may be a stretch. But does the nag to set up Apple Pay directly change preferences to their product over a competitor's? Or is it added as an option?

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#14

Post by circuit10 »

deafpolygon wrote: post #10

> Windows 11 gave me an unsolicited toaster popup, with the default action being to change Chrome's default search engine to Bing Not doubting you, but as a W11 home user for a while- I haven't seen this myself. > This is an atrocious dark pattern and a huge overreach for an operating system It's not a dark pattern. It's definitely an annoying thing - how is this different from Apple reminding you to set-up Apple Pay…

Because it’s something you probably don’t want to do and they’re making it easy to do by accident

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#15

Post by soulofmischief »

naikrovek wrote: post #6
soulofmischief wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe people decide to expand their own definition of a word, which everyone is allowed to do, and we eventually come to a consensus? Try to be a little less cynical.

I'm cynical because I've seen SO MANY terms quickly change, only to be told by people who are younger than my career that my use of a term is incorrect. I'm cynical because I've been forced to be. "copypasta" used to mean that a programs source code was copied from many places and hastily wired up so it all works without any cleanup or untangling of unnecessary bits of code, like casts from uint16 to uint32 so that o…

You do realize that there is a plethora of words in the English language which have multiple distinct meanings?

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/english-w...

No one forced you to be bitter about evolving language. We live in a hyperconnected era where language is evolving faster than ever, so you'll need to calibrate if you don't want to spend every minute seething.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#17

Post by yonatan8070 »

parker_mountain wrote: post #12

I have honestly given up on Windows. It has extremely strong fundamentals, but they seem determined to mine their users for money instead of investing in a platform. I find what's happening in Apple world to be dire, but at least they have been good stewards of the user. Desktop Linux has its own serious problems as well (there's a reason its at 3%~ market penetration). I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I think Appl…

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#18

Post by arcanemachiner »

yonatan8070 wrote: post #17
parker_mountain wrote: post #12

I have honestly given up on Windows. It has extremely strong fundamentals, but they seem determined to mine their users for money instead of investing in a platform. I find what's happening in Apple world to be dire, but at least they have been good stewards of the user. Desktop Linux has its own serious problems as well (there's a reason its at 3%~ market penetration). I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I think Appl…

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

My Linux install does dumb shit (technical term) all the time, but I find it's a small price to pay for software that doesn't hate me.

Case in point: I just upgraded to the newish Xubuntu 23.04 the other day, and now my default sound output device changes (to the wrong one) every time I come out of sleep mode.

A small price to pay.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#19

Post by ipaddr »

naikrovek wrote: post #4

is it a dark pattern if it clearly asks you to do something, and doesn't lie or deceive you about what it's going to do if you accept or decline? (no, it isn't a dark pattern if it isn't lying or tricking you into making a decision you would not make otherwise. this particular behavior isn't defensible behavior, and it isn't an example of a dark pattern, either.) is this how languages evolve so fast? people using wor…

It is a dark pattern to ask the user to switch defaults to a product randomly presenting an action button which tricks the user into clicking something they have no desire to change.

It's desktop spam. Like receiving an email trying to get you to click a link and install malware.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#20

Post by xg15 »

esperent wrote: post #8

Yes, it's obnoxious. And so are the nonstop popups telling you to use Chrome that Google shows you if you're using Edge on Maps, YouTube, Gmail, Search etc. Both of these companies should be slapped hard for doing this.

"fun" side effect of that: even if you wanted, you can't actually get rid of the nag screens: even if you did everything e.g. Microsoft wanted from you, then Google will keep nagging you to revert the settings back to the opposite - and vice versa.

Users are basically in the middle of a conflict between MS and Google, with no options to get out of it (except stop using their products).

Post reply on HN