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How to Write Software with Zero bugs – 25 years after qmail 1.0 – D. Bernstein [pdf]

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Re: How to Write Software with Zero bugs – 25 years after qmail 1.0 – D. Bernstein [pdf]

#11

Post by rodgerd »

hdmoore wrote: post #3

Erm, qmail had lots of bugs[1], when compiled for 64-bit processors (lots of integer overflows), but djb pushed back and said 64-bit wasn't supported. If anything, qmail is known as the most annoying MTA to package, since no modifications to the source are permitted, and the application has to be built using a massive patch tree instead. The quirky management daemons required to run qmail were also obnoxious and at o…

> Erm, qmail had lots of bugs[1], when compiled for 64-bit processors (lots of integer overflows), but djb pushed back and said 64-bit wasn't supported.

qmail is a great demonstration that if you declare enough things out of scope, you can claim that the software is secure.

Re: How to Write Software with Zero bugs – 25 years after qmail 1.0 – D. Bernstein [pdf]

#13

Post by jeffbee »

hdmoore wrote: post #3

Erm, qmail had lots of bugs[1], when compiled for 64-bit processors (lots of integer overflows), but djb pushed back and said 64-bit wasn't supported. If anything, qmail is known as the most annoying MTA to package, since no modifications to the source are permitted, and the application has to be built using a massive patch tree instead. The quirky management daemons required to run qmail were also obnoxious and at o…

> quirky management daemons

setproctitle is enough logging for a mailer, said nobody ever.

Re: How to Write Software with Zero bugs – 25 years after qmail 1.0 – D. Bernstein [pdf]

#14

Post by gerdesj »

I ran several Qmail systems. Daemontools worked rather well. They had a habit of delivering email reliably. "Life with Qmail" was a very decent primer.

I also ran several other mail systems at the same time (and still do). Exchange's smtpd is still a bit of a pain and I never put it on the internet directly.

Nowadays (last 15 years) I use Exim for a MTA/proxy - at home and at work.

Re: How to Write Software with Zero bugs – 25 years after qmail 1.0 – D. Bernstein [pdf]

#15

Post by GauntletWizard »

gerdesj wrote: post #14

I ran several Qmail systems. Daemontools worked rather well. They had a habit of delivering email reliably. "Life with Qmail" was a very decent primer. I also ran several other mail systems at the same time (and still do). Exchange's smtpd is still a bit of a pain and I never put it on the internet directly. Nowadays (last 15 years) I use Exim for a MTA/proxy - at home and at work.

I feel like Pottering owes a lot to daemontools; A lot of the good ideas of Systemd come from there, as does the sense of smug superiority.

Re: How to Write Software with Zero bugs – 25 years after qmail 1.0 – D. Bernstein [pdf]

#16

Post by jongjong »

I agree with the argument about reducing lines of code. Whenever I write code, I spend quite a bit of time thinking about different ways of implementing it before I start coding and the most important characteristic I look for in a solution is succinctness.

Correct code is easy to read because it's close to its theoretical minimum size. It reminds me of the quote "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

Re: How to Write Software with Zero bugs – 25 years after qmail 1.0 – D. Bernstein [pdf]

#18

Post by actionfromafar »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #15
gerdesj wrote: post #14

I ran several Qmail systems. Daemontools worked rather well. They had a habit of delivering email reliably. "Life with Qmail" was a very decent primer. I also ran several other mail systems at the same time (and still do). Exchange's smtpd is still a bit of a pain and I never put it on the internet directly. Nowadays (last 15 years) I use Exim for a MTA/proxy - at home and at work.

I feel like Pottering owes a lot to daemontools; A lot of the good ideas of Systemd come from there, as does the sense of smug superiority.

Daemontools is smug, Systemd declares itself triumphantly the Emperor and Lord Protector of our light cone!

Re: How to Write Software with Zero bugs – 25 years after qmail 1.0 – D. Bernstein [pdf]

#19

Post by Karrot_Kream »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #15
gerdesj wrote: post #14

I ran several Qmail systems. Daemontools worked rather well. They had a habit of delivering email reliably. "Life with Qmail" was a very decent primer. I also ran several other mail systems at the same time (and still do). Exchange's smtpd is still a bit of a pain and I never put it on the internet directly. Nowadays (last 15 years) I use Exim for a MTA/proxy - at home and at work.

I feel like Pottering owes a lot to daemontools; A lot of the good ideas of Systemd come from there, as does the sense of smug superiority.

> as does the sense of smug superiority.

Ouch I never made this connection but now that you bring it up, I can't unsee it.

Re: How to Write Software with Zero bugs – 25 years after qmail 1.0 – D. Bernstein [pdf]

#20

Post by Karrot_Kream »

gerdesj wrote: post #14

I ran several Qmail systems. Daemontools worked rather well. They had a habit of delivering email reliably. "Life with Qmail" was a very decent primer. I also ran several other mail systems at the same time (and still do). Exchange's smtpd is still a bit of a pain and I never put it on the internet directly. Nowadays (last 15 years) I use Exim for a MTA/proxy - at home and at work.

Any reason you prefer Exim? I've enjoyed running Postfix forever and though the config is a bit baroque, have had no issues with running it in my somewhat weird setup.
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