Live data from Hacker News

Blocked by Cloudflare

jrhawley.ca

11–20 of 473 posts

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#12
Any time a large portion of internet traffic is controlled by a single source it brings problems like this with it. All cloudflare has to do is arbitrarily decide who and who can't use the internet and effectively their word becomes law. Like most things it starts with an innocent premise (e.g. "an easy way to stop bad actors") and ends up extended to any number of arbitrary things. Worse, the argument from privacy advocates rings hollow because defending privacy means you have to allow Bad People (TM). The average drooler using the internet cannot understand the nuance. Even in the most innocent of cases, a bad commit getting merged, can bring down the internet. It has happened before with Cloudflare.

Companies like Cloudflare, Google, Meta, etc are the reason anti-trust law exists. Unfortunately, it appears there is no one with any power that is willing to use the laws for their purpose. The internet in 20 years will be nothing like we've seen before. That's not a good thing.

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#13
I've had the exact same problem for a while. Here are some of the sites I've been unable to access (found by searching for "just a moment" in my browser history):

- https://gitlab.com/users/sign_in

- https://steamdb.info/login/

- https://www.zabbix.com/forum/

- https://casetext.com/

- https://namemc.com/login

- https://spinroot.com/

- https://camelcamelcamel.com/

It's really annoying and Cloudflare is apparently doing nothing to fix it as this has been going on for months if not years. I guess Cloudflare just hates the open web and really wants to enforce Chrome/Chromium/Blink hegemony.

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#14
post #12

Any time a large portion of internet traffic is controlled by a single source it brings problems like this with it. All cloudflare has to do is arbitrarily decide who and who can't use the internet and effectively their word becomes law. Like most things it starts with an innocent premise (e.g. "an easy way to stop bad actors") and ends up extended to any number of arbitrary things. Worse, the argument from privacy a…

Everyone forgets that websites become almost unusable because of crawlers and bots.

Website owners specifically choose for cloudflare to protect against this, it's not forced upon them by cloudflare.

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#15
post #7

I'm surprised Apple PAT and Google WEI wasn't mentioned in the article. Especially since Apple has partnered with Cloudflare on PAT.

They do mention it (Google's at least) in this section [0] [0] https://jrhawley.ca/2023/08/07/blocked-by-cloudflare#implica...

Also, the scope of PATs is vastly different than WEI. Think of PATs as a "probably a human" signal that mostly replaces the need for CAPTCHAs.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/how-to-enable-private-access-tok...

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#16
Just yesterday I realized that I couldn't log into Paypal on Safari or Firefox, only a Chromium-based browser. We're getting deeper all the time into "this site is best viewed in Google Chrome".

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#17

> I temporarily disabled extensions. I opened a private browsing window. FYI When using Chrome, incognito window carries a lot of baggage. For issues like this use Guest profile as it doesn't include extensions, caches, storage, etc. Optionally do a Google search first to seed it with cookies.

Mind expanding on what you mean by baggage? Or linking to something to start research.

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#18
post #12

Any time a large portion of internet traffic is controlled by a single source it brings problems like this with it. All cloudflare has to do is arbitrarily decide who and who can't use the internet and effectively their word becomes law. Like most things it starts with an innocent premise (e.g. "an easy way to stop bad actors") and ends up extended to any number of arbitrary things. Worse, the argument from privacy a…

Everyone forgets that websites become almost unusable because of crawlers and bots. Website owners specifically choose for cloudflare to protect against this, it's not forced upon them by cloudflare.

And who defines is an allowed crawler? Is Google the only allowed company to crawl the web? Isn't that the definition of monopoly?

Could anybody still create a new search engine nowadays?

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone forgets that websites become almost unusable because of crawlers and bots. Website owners specifically choose for cloudflare to protect against this, it's not forced upon them by cloudflare.

And who defines is an allowed crawler? Is Google the only allowed company to crawl the web? Isn't that the definition of monopoly? Could anybody still create a new search engine nowadays?

A valid crawler is following robots.txt

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#20
If you've ever tried to take apart Cloudflare's various session cookies, MITMed scripts sent for "high integrity" pages (or when in "super bot-fight" mode), etc., you'll have observed that it's basically running a web-worker to heuristically do browser-integrity checking. That is, Cloudflare is trying to run a series of tests that real browsers operated by users pass, but which headless browsers operated by bots will fail.

These range from pretty simple things that check that the browser is actually a browser rather than a raw HTML parser (e.g. "draw an image on a , export it to PNG, hash the PNG, compare to an expected result"); to things that check for low-effort headless-browsing techniques like the one you get by default using Puppeteer in a Lambda/Cloud Function (e.g. "do we have the weirder fonts you'd expect to exist on a consumer OS, but which these default batteries-included container images don't bother to bake in"); to things that work really hard to detect the "scent of humanity" through the browser (e.g. "before the user activated the integrity-check prompt, did we record a sequence of 'extraneous' mouse movements and key events that look like a human making individualized mistakes on their way to completing the form, and don't look like a recorded capture of such similar to other ones we've seen recently.")

If you're getting caught in a verification loop, it's because you're using a browser or device or extension that obscures/disables enough of these heuristics that Cloudflare can't get proof positive that you're a person rather than a bot — and so, under whatever settings the site-owner has it set at, it will just keep trying to get that proof, rather than telling you you've failed and been blocked. (Why? Because telling a bot they've failed tells them that they should stop trying something that's not working and instead — in the words of Star Trek technobabble — "rotate their shield frequency" before trying again.)

Post reply on HN